Current Theme:  Cosmic Hierachies

The Primordial Flame                 The Secret Doctrine book i p.88-94

Seven Rays and Countless Sparks           SD i 118-120

Fohat and the Four Regents                     SD i 122-125

The Lipika                                    SD i 127-135

Creative Powers                          SD i 213-222

Saptaparna                                  SD i 231-237

Degrees of Consciousness          SD i 274-277

Precosmic and Sidereal Gods     SD i 432-443

The Kumaras                               SD i 456-460

The Allegory of the Fall               SD ii 61-62

The Divine Dynasties                  SD ii 365-373

The Gods of Olympus                   SD ii 764-777 

Plantetary Gods and the Builders     Transactions 53-56

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 From:  The Primordial Flame                 The Secret Doctrine book i p.88-94

(2) LEARN WHAT WE, WHO DESCEND FROM THE PRIMORDIAL SEVEN, WE, WHO ARE BORN FROM THE PRIMORDIAL FLAME, HAVE LEARNED FROM OUR FATHERS (a).

(a) This is explained in Book II., and this name, "Primordial Flame," corroborates what is said in the first paragraph of the preceding commentary on Stanza IV.

The distinction between the "Primordial" and the subsequent seven Builders is this: The former are the Ray and direct emanation of the first "Sacred Four," the Tetraktis, that is, the eternally Self-Existent One (Eternal in Essence note well, not in manifestation, and distinct from the universal ONE). Latent, during Pralaya, and active, during Manvantara, the "Primordial" proceed from "Father-Mother" (Spirit-Hyle, or Ilus); whereas the other manifested Quaternary and the Seven proceed from the Mother alone. It is the latter who is the immaculate Virgin-Mother, who is overshadowed, not impregnated, by the Universal MYSTERY — when she emerges from her state of Laya or undifferentiated condition. In reality, they are, of course, all one; but their aspects on the various planes of being are different. (See Part II., "Theogony of the Creative Gods.")

The first "Primordial" are the highest Beings on the Scale of Existence. They are the Archangels of Christianity, those who refuse — as Michael did in the latter system, and as did the eldest "Mind-born sons" of Brahmâ (Veddhas) — to create or rather to multiply.

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AKA the Arba-Il - I think that this is esoteric concept is quite closely connected with the Roman Catholic dogma of the Ascencion of the Virgin-mother, which became official in 1950s - whether this occurred for any esoteric reasons, I have no idea. Here's an image I found on a Jung blog post illustrating the related alchemical quaternary (a variant version, instead of the virgin, the fourth element depicts the marriage of the king and queen, which sometimes used the figures of Mercury and the Mary).

"In the Father is eternity, in the Son identity, and in the Holy Spirit the marriage of eternity and identity. These three are one— body, soul, and spirit; for all perfection is based on the number three." (Aurora consurgens, 15th century).

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From the selection: Seven Rays and Countless Sparks   SD i 118-120

(c) The "Divine World" — the countless Lights lit at the primeval Light — the Buddhis, or formless divine Souls, of the last Arupa (formless) world; the "Sum Total," in the mysterious language of the old Stanza. In the Catechism, the Master is made to ask the pupil: —

"Lift thy head, oh Lanoo; dost thou see one, or countless lights above thee, burning in the dark midnight sky?"

"I sense one Flame, oh Gurudeva, I see countless undetached sparks shining in it."

"Thou sayest well. And now look around and into thyself. That light which burns inside thee, dost thou feel it different in anywise from the light that shines in thy Brother-men?"

"It is in no way different, though the prisoner is held in bondage by Karma, and though its outer garments delude the ignorant into saying, 'Thy Soul and My Soul.' "

The radical unity of the ultimate essence of each constituent part of compounds in Nature — from Star to mineral Atom, from the highest Dhyan Chohan to the smallest infusoria, in the fullest acceptation of the term, and whether applied to the spiritual, intellectual, or physical worlds — this is the one fundamental law in Occult Science.

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What is the relationship between Cosmic Hierarchies and the human constitution?

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''It is then the “Seven Sons of Light” — called after their planets and (by the rabble) often identified with them — namely Saturn, Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Venus, and — presumablyfor the modern critic, who goes no deeper than the surface of old religions* — the Sun and Moon, which are, according to the Occult teachings, our heavenly Parents, or “Father,” synthetically. Hence, as already remarked, polytheism is really more philosophical and correct, as to fact and nature, than anthropomorphic monotheism. Saturn, Jupiter, Mercury, and Venus, the four exoteric planets, and the three others, which must remain unnamed, were the heavenly bodies in direct astral and psychic communication with the Earth, its Guides, and Watchers — morally and physically; the visible orbs furnishing our Humanity with its outward and inward characteristics, and their “Regents” or Rectors with our Monads and spiritual faculties.'' SD I, p. 575

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Although this is a valid question Gerry, it cannot be answered because it is too broad and by that I mean too un-specific :-), HPB points out that if she had to explain all the hierarchies - which are not even known to all the adepts, only the most high and even they are very few - she would have to write another hundred SDs or so. So we have to work with the references that are available - like a blueprint or framework - and connect the dots ourselves, because the subject in itself belongs to the highest esotericism. There are copious references to hierarchies, but they do not discuss ALL possible hierarchies which probably runs into the millions - "so many people on earth, so many gods in heaven". In a certain sense the whole SD is an explanation of the hierarchies if we wake up to that calling.

However, she has given us some material that relates directly to our human constitution and the hierarchies under discussion. The Primordial Seven referred to in the sloka on p. 88 are the first primordial hierarchies that are born (emanated) from the Third Logos (Brahmâ - the creative logos, sometimes also referred to as Mahat). See also Transactions pp. 137-140. Each of these hierarchies or forces correspond with a ray, as there are seven hierarchies, there are thus 7 rays. Each of these hierarchies or forces or rays has a direct relationship to one of the seven principles in man - as they are the emanators of our monads - and is also responsible for one of the kingdoms in nature (3 elemental plus, mineral, vegetable, animal and human kingdoms). We thus see that complete man is an aggregate of forces or hierarchies and reflects the one life or unity in seven distinct principles or in other words, man is the sum total, the microcosm of the macrocosm reflected in manifestation. Each of these seven principles (as vehicles of the one spirit) needs to be developed throughout seven rounds (one principle for every round and correspondentially on every globe and in every race) after which man with his vast array of accumulated experiences re-becomes one with his source. This subject is - I imagine due to its secret nature - interspersed throughout the literature, and the student has to go through it with a fine comb in order to form a coherent picture of what this subject represent. If we can avail ourselves of the forces represented by these hierarchies (see SD I:292-293) we become as incarnated gods, but this requires a specific training for which we have to follow a specific path for which The Voice of the Silence forms the manual. "We, who descend from the Primordial Seven" are the King-instructors of nascent humanity to which our Elder Brothers belong.

Here's a reference from the SD I:140 which if connected with SD I:571-572 (especially what is said on the first few lines of 572) allows us to connect some of the dots.

"Although these Stanzas refer to the whole Universe after a Maha- pralaya (universal destruction), yet this sentence [Stanza VI Sloka 3], as any student of Occultism may see, refers also by analogy to the evolution and final formation of the primitive (though compound) Seven Elements on our Earth. Of these, four elements are now fully manifested, while the fifth—Ether—is only partially so, as we are hardly in the second half of the Fourth Round, and consequently the fifth Element will manifest fully only in the Fifth Round. The Worlds, including our own, were of course, as germs, primarily evolved from the one Element in its second stage (“Father-Mother,” the differentiated World’s Soul, not what is termed the “ Over-Soul ” by Emerson), whether we call it, with modern Science, Cosmic dust and Fire Mist, or with Occultism—Akâsa, Jivâtma, divine Astral Light, or the “ Soul of the World.” But this first stage of Evolution was in due course of time followed by the next. No world, as no heavenly body, could be constructed on the objective plane, had not the Elements been sufficiently differentiated already from their primeval Ilus, resting in Laya. The latter term is a synonym of Nirvana."

All the kingdoms on earth including man in his sevenfold constitution are produced from these elements, the esoteric meaning of these elements is what can be found at the top of SD I:572.

"These Brâhmanas (the Rishi Prajâpati ?), the creators of the world, are born here (on earth) again and again. Whatever is produced from them is dissolved in due time in those very five great elements (the five, or rather seven, Dhyani Buddhas, also called “ Elements ” of Mankind), like billows in the ocean. These great elements are in every way beyond the elements that make up the world (the gross elements). And he who is released even from these five elements (the tanmâtras)* goes to the highest goal."

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Hi Gerry,  while Pierree is quite correct it’s a big subject if one goes into detail, but one can put up a reasonably simple and correct framework from the last vibration of the seventh eternity down to man in a minimal amount of words by not using any direct quotes to enlarge it. From this framework readers could search areas of specific interest them

The Seven Rays are the original Army of the Voice (“In the beginning there was the word”) and contain all that there is in the coming Universe.

Quote from SD Commentaries page113;    The Luminous Sons of Manvantaric Dawn are the Primordial Seven Rays, from which will emanate, in their turn all the other luminous or non‑luminous lives, whether angels or devils, men or apes. These are the seven rays from which will come all the flames of being and everything in this world of illusion.  The Seven Logoi.  Everything, therefore, is there in the Seven Rays. 

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Casady, Pierre and James many thanks.

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From the Section:  Fohat and the Four Regents   SD i 122-125

5. FOHAT TAKES FIVE STRIDES (having already taken the first three) (a), AND BUILDS A WINGED WHEEL AT EACH CORNER OF THE SQUARE FOR THE FOUR HOLY ONES . . . . . AND THEIR ARMIES (hosts) (b).

(a) The "strides," as already explained (see Commentary on Stanza IV.), refer to both the Cosmic and the Human principles — the latter of which consist, in the exoteric division, of three (Spirit, Soul, and Body), and, in the esoteric calculation, of seven principles — three rays of the Essence and four aspects.* Those who have studied Mr. Sinnett's "Esoteric Buddhism" can easily grasp the nomenclature. There are two esoteric schools — or rather one school, divided into two parts — one for the inner Lanoos, the other for the outer or semi-lay chelas beyond the Himalayas; the first teaching a septenary, the other a six-fold division of human principles.

From a Cosmic point of view, Fohat taking "five strides" refers here to the five upper planes of Consciousness and Being, the sixth and the seventh (counting downwards) being the astral and the terrestrial, or the two lower planes.

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Might we say simply that Cosmic Hierarchies are mirrored in the human 7fold constitution?

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Certainly, Kirk Marzulo (below) summed it up nicely.

Each one of our principles as also the other kingdoms of nature bear a relation to and are the manifested extensions and vehicles of one of the 7 primordial hierarchies. Everything exists within everything. In their unity the 7 hierarchies are the potentiality and provide the energy for the manifestation of life in our cosmos.

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Briefly, why do you think that we human beings are largely unaware of this sublime relation with the cosmos?  What is the main thing blocking this knowledge and awareness?

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Permalink Reply by Casady on November 15, 2014 at 11:02am
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"The Grand Cycle includes the progress of mankind from the appearance of primordial man of ethereal form. It runs through the inner cycles of his (man’s) progressive evolution from the ethereal down to the semi-ethereal and purely physical: down to the redemption of man from his coat of skinand matter, after which it continues running its course downward and then upward again, to meet at the culmination of a Round, when the manvantaric “Serpent swallows its tail” and seven minor cycles are passed. These are the great Racial Cycles which affect equally all the nations and tribes included in that special Race; but there are minor and national as well as tribal cycles within those, which run independently of each other. They are called in the Eastern esotericism the Karmic cycles." SD1 642

Permalink Reply by Gerry Kiffe on November 8, 2014 at 2:22pm
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What is the connection between the idea of non-possession, the theme for the week, and the SD theme for this month Cosmic Heirarchies?

Permalink Reply by Kirk Marzulo on November 9, 2014 at 11:20am
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Great questions and comments. Just a few ideas to add to the mix:

The core idea of the Heirarchies as others have expressed, is this idea of a seven-fold differentiation within a "radical unity." In Pythagorean thought the monad or unity was the first number and could be symbolized by a point or by a circle. All other numbers are "differentiations within a unified continuum." Nothing that follows takes place outside the One, but ever within it. "God is a circle with center everywhere and circumference nowhere." -Nicolas of Cusa

At the same time a crucial distinction only partially pointed to in the quotations from the S.D., is the difference between the hierarchies associated the 'solar' as opposed to the 'lunar' pitris, the higher triad in man as opposed to the lower quaternary. The lower (lunar) provide the vestures of incarnation--mortal, ephemeral and perishable, while the higher (solar) refers to the immortal, unchanging spiritual and higher intuitional essences within us. The higher triad is universal. When we manage to rise to that perspective (the 6th and 7th planes of nature), we re-enter into conscious union with the one.

This, it would seem, provides a philosophical basis for non-possession. Nothing that can be apprehended with the senses can be possessed. It is the effort to cling to (tanha), to hold on to that which is ever-changing which creates suffering in the Buddhist teaching. This includes all our limited notions of a personal "self" or "entity" because they all arise out of a fundamental ignorance of our higher nature.

Permalink Reply by Gerry Kiffe on November 11, 2014 at 3:38pm
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From the point of view of the personal self might it say "I don't even own myself!"?

It that a correct interpretation, at least in part, of what you are saying here?

Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on November 11, 2014 at 7:46pm
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Hi Gerry,

A correct assumption as far as it goes, as well as the reason yogi’s practice detachment.

 One might say we are allotted our present personality for this incarnation in the ‘Earth School’ to use as we see fit, but we don’t own it. The ways in which we use it are all recorded and play out in our next incarnation.

Quote CW  229;...Since the present incarnation is the child of the previous one, and since there is but that ONE LIFE which holds together all the planets of the Solar system, the position of those planets at the time of the birth of an individual—which event is the aggregate result of the causes already produced --- gives to the true Astrologer the data upon which to base his predictions.

 CW 16, 138;…Astronomy and physiology are the bodies, astrology and psychology their informing souls; the former being studied by the eye of sensual perception, the latter by the inner or “soul-eye”; and both are exact sciences.

 The above shows the importance of the planets, both Sacred and non-sacred. Also why this science is becoming popular again with computers allowing us to instantly create a birth chart, transits, or progressions. An added bi-product of this use of symbols is the development of the abstract mind.

Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on November 11, 2014 at 9:28pm
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Sorry about the double post, I first put through email connection but it refuse to load, so I deleted it and went direct via internet. It must have reloaded itself via email address.

 

Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on November 11, 2014 at 7:51pm
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Hi Gerry,

A correct assumption as far as it goes, as well as the reason yogi’s practice detachment.

 One might say we are allotted our personality for this incarnation in the ‘Earth School’ to use as we see fit, but we don’t own it. The ways in which we use it are all recorded and play out in our next incarnation.

Quote CW  229;...Since the present incarnation is the child of the previous one, and since there is but that ONE LIFE which holds together all the planets of the Solar system, the position of those planets at the time of the birth of an individual—which event is the aggregate result of the causes already produced-----gives to the true Astrologer the data upon which to base his predictions.

 CW 16, 138;…Astronomy and physiology are the bodies, astrology and psychology their informing souls; the former being studied by the eye of sensual perception, the latter by the inner or “soul-eye”; and both are exact sciences.

 The above shows the importance of the planets, both Sacred and non-sacred. Also why this science is becoming popular again with computers allowing us to instantly create a birth chart, transits, or progressions. An added bi-product of this use of symbols is the development of the abstract mind.

Permalink Reply by Kirk Marzulo on November 15, 2014 at 8:11pm
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The following is a reply to Gerry's question on Tuesday:

Yes, it seems so. 

You also seem to have identified the crux of the problem, as far as we understand it. The more the sense of 'I' is bound to the personality: name and form, certain identifiable (though ever shifting) karmic traits, born on a certain day, etc., then consciousness has become bound by it's temporary vehicle, a mere shifting shadow as opposed to the source of light. This fundamental misconception, this 'avidya' or ignorance is the source of all afflictive emotions: hatred, anger and not least of all--selfish desire or attachment. 

If the true 'I" is the Universal Self of All and this cannot be separated from the One Life or the One Law...and the incarnated personality is the vehicle for it's individuated incarnation (like rays of light streaming forth from a common sun), then wouldn't it seem that any attempt to appropriate, hoard and utilize resources only on behalf of the separate personality would be a violation of karmic law?

A sense of trusteeship towards all the resources at ones disposal, natural generosity, the virtue of giving (Dana) and renunciation of the fruits of action, all seem to be appropriate modes of living in harmony with higher truth. 

Permalink Reply by Gerry Kiffe on November 16, 2014 at 12:23pm
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Great post, very eye opening for me. Everything that constitutes the personal nature, the elementals, skandhas, even consciousness of a sort, is on loan from its corresponding cosmic hierarchy.  Your post Kirk helped me to see that if you turn the vantage point around, looking at things as if one could see it from the standpoint of the whole, one would realize that question is not what can "I" get or what is owed to me, but rather what is "my" duty to the whole.

Permalink Reply by ModeratorTN on November 10, 2014 at 9:44pm
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From the Section      The Lipika  SD i 127-135

The Planetary Spirits are the informing spirits of the Stars in general, and of the Planets especially. They rule the destinies of men who are all born under one or other of their constellations; the second and third groups pertaining to other systems have the same functions, and all rule various departments in Nature. In the Hindu exoteric Pantheon they are the guardian deities who preside over the eight points of the compass — the four cardinal and the four intermediate points — and are called Loka-Pâlas, "Supporters or guardians of the World" (in our visible Kosmos), of which Indra (East), Yama (South), Varuna (West), and Kuvera (North) are the chief; their elephants and their spouses pertaining of course to fancy and afterthought, though all of them have an occult significance.

The Lipika (a description of whom is given in the Commentary on Stanza IV. No. 6) are the Spirits of the Universe, whereas the Builders are only our own planetary deities. The former belong to the most occult portion of Cosmogenesis, which cannot be given here. Whether the Adepts (even the highest) know this angelic order in the completeness of its triple degrees, or only the lower one connected with the records of our world, is something which the writer is unprepared to say, and she would incline rather to the latter supposition. Of its highest grade one thing only is taught: the Lipika are connected with Karma — being its direct Recorders.

Permalink Reply by ModeratorTN on November 14, 2014 at 11:22pm
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From the Section: Creative Powers   SD i 213-222

1. BEHOLD THE BEGINNING OF SENTIENT FORMLESS LIFE (a).

FIRST, THE DIVINE (vehicle) (b), THE ONE FROM THE MOTHER-SPIRIT (Atman); THEN THE SPIRITUAL—(Atma-Buddhi, Spirit-soul) * (c); (again) THE THREE FROM THE ONE (d), THE FOUR FROM THE ONE (e), AND THE FIVE (f), FROM WHICH THE THREE, THE FIVE AND THE SEVEN (g)—THESE ARE THE THREE-FOLD AND THE FOUR-FOLD DOWNWARD; THE "MIND-BORN SONS OF THE FIRST LORD (Avalôkitêswara) THE SHINING SEVEN (the "Builders"). † IT IS THEY WHO ARE THOU, ME, HIM, O LANOO; THEY WHO WATCH OVER THEE AND THY MOTHER, BHUMI (the Earth).

(a) The hierarchy of Creative Powers is divided into seven (or 4 and 3) esoteric, within the twelve great Orders, recorded in the twelve signs of the Zodiac; the seven of the manifesting scale being connected, moreover, with the Seven Planets. All this is subdivided into numberless groups of divine Spiritual, semi-Spiritual, and ethereal Beings.

The Chief Hierarchies among these are hinted at in the great Quaternary, or the "four bodies and the three faculties" of Brahmâ exoterically, and the Panchâsyam, the five Brahmâs, or the five Dhyani-Buddhas in the Buddhist system.

The highest group is composed of the divine Flames, so-called, also spoken of as the "Fiery Lions" and the "Lions of Life," whose esotericism is securely hidden in the Zodiacal sign of Leo. It is the nucleole of the superior divine World (see Commentary in first pages of Addendum). They are the formless Fiery Breaths, identical in one aspect with the upper Sephirothal TRIAD, which is placed by the Kabalists in the "Archetypal World."

The same hierarchy, with the same numbers, is found in the Japanese system, in the "Beginnings" as taught by both the Shinto and the Buddhist sects. In this system, Anthropogenesis precedes Cosmogenesis, as the Divine merges into the human, and creates— midway in its descent into matter—the visible Universe. The legendary personages—remarks reverentially Omoie—"having to be understood as the stereotyped embodiment of the higher (secret) doctrine, and its sublime truths." To state it at full length, however, would occupy too much of our space, but a few words on this old system cannot be out of place. The following is a short synopsis of this Anthropo-Cosmogenesis, and it shows how closely the most separated notions echoed one and the same Archaic teaching.

* This relates to the Cosmic principles.
† The seven creative Rishis now connected with the constellation of the Great Bear

Permalink Reply by Kirk Marzulo on November 15, 2014 at 8:18pm
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I realize this may be another very complex, unanswerable question, but what might be some ways of begining to approach the idea that the 7-fold hierarchy of creative powers is connected with "the twelve great Orders, recorded in the twelve signs of the Zodiac"? 

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Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on November 18, 2014 at 6:18pm
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Kirk, indeed a very complex issue. Unanswerable? I don't know, but it certainly takes a lot of study and the accompanying intuition to wade through this topic. Calling it a life-time study would be appropriate here.

One can look for instance at Subba Row's article, "The Twelve Signs of the Zodiac", inFive Years of Theosophy, pp. 103-118 for starters. This needs to be collated with HPBs topics discussed both in the SD and Isis Unveiled. In Isis, for instance, Volume II:455 until say p. 470 relating to Ezekiel's Wheel.

In the SD, subjects relating obviously to the hierarchies as in the present topic SD I:213-226.

Of importance also SD II:77 say up to p. 92.

HPB gives an interesting hint in SD II:77

"But who are "They" who create, and the "Lords of the Flame," "who do not"? Occultism divides the "Creators" into twelve classes; of which four have reached liberation to the end of the "Great Age," the fifth is ready to reach it, but still remains active on the intellectual planes, while seven are still under direct Karmic law. These last act on the man-bearing globes of our chain.

The fifth who is ready most likely relating to the Silent Watcher, see SD I:207-208 & 264-265

Just a few pointers to get us off the street :-)

Permalink Reply by Casady on November 19, 2014 at 2:35pm
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There's also the Spierenburg astrology book:http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/spierastrology.htm

I think a key phrase from SD1 213-226 would be:

" (a) The hierarchy of Creative Powers is divided into seven (or 4 and 3) esoteric, within the twelve great Orders, recorded in the twelve signs of the Zodiac; the seven of the manifesting scale being connected, moreover, with the Seven Planets. All this is subdivided into numberless groups of divine Spiritual, semi-Spiritual, and ethereal Beings."

Here's a chart from Esoteric Philosophy by Doss McDavid:

Aries


Taurus


Gemini


Cancer

Four have reached liberation to the end of the “Great Age”

Leo

The fifth is ready to reach it but still remains active

on the intellectual planes

Virgo

Fire

Virgins of Life

Libra

Fire-Aether

Prototypes of monads / provide Buddhi

Scorpio

Fire-Aether-Water

“triads”

Sagittarius

Fire-Aether-Water-Air

Imperishable Jivas / nursery of human souls

Capricorn

Sons of Wisdom

Solar Dhyanis / Fire of Mind

Aquarius

Creators of Form

Lunar Monads or Pitris

Pisces

Spirits of Life

Lower Lunar “Lives”

Permalink Reply by Casady on November 22, 2014 at 1:51pm
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Here's a suggestive passage that could be useful:

''

The above explanations contain the key to the Pythagoræan general formula of unity in multiplicity, the One evolving the many, and pervading the many and the whole. Their mystic Dekad (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10), expresses the entire idea; it is not only far from being "revolting" but it is positively sublime. The One is the Deity; the Two Matter—the figure so despised by them as Matter per se can never be a conscious unity.‡ The Three (or Triangle), combining Monad and Duad, partaking of the nature of both, becomes the Triad or the phenomenal world. The Tetrad or sacred Tetraktys, the form of perfection with the Pythagoræans, expresses at the same time the emptiness of all—Mâyâ. While the Dekad, or sum of all, involves the entire Kosmos. "The universe is the combination of a thousand elements, and yet the expression of a single element—absolute harmony or spirit—a chaos to the sense, a perfect kosmos to reason," we say in Isis Unveiled.

Pythagoras learned his philosophy in India. Hence, the similarity in the fundamental ideas of the ancient Brâhmanical Initiates and the Pythagorists. And when in defining the Shatkon, the writer says it "represents the great universe (Brahmânda)—the whole endless Mahâkâsha—with all the planetary and stellar worlds contained in it," he only repeats in other words the explanation given by Pythagoras and the Hermetic philosophers of the hexagonal star or the "double triangle," as shown above.

Nor do we find it very difficult to fill up the gap left in our brief note in the August number as to the "remaining three points of the two triangles," and the three sides of each element of the "double triangle" or of the circle surrounding the figure. As the Hermetists symbolized everything visible and invisible they could not fail to symbolize the macrocosm in its completeness.

The Pythagoreans who included in their Dekad the entire Kosmos, held the number twelve in still higher reverence as it represented the sacred Tetraktys multiplied by three, which gave a trinity of perfect squares called tetrads. The Hermetic philosophers or Occultists following in their steps represented this number twelve in the "double triangle"—the great universe or the macrocosm as shown in this figure—and included in it the pentagram, or the microcosm, called by them the little universe.

Dividing the twelve letters of the outer angles into four groups of triads, or three groups of tetrads, they obtained the Dodekagon, a regular geometric polygon, bounded by twelve equal sides and containing twelve equal angles, which symbolized with the ancient Chaldæans the twelve "great gods,"§ and with the Hebrew Kabalists the ten Sephiroth, or creative powers of nature, emanated from Sephira (Divine Light), herself the chief Sephiroth and emanation from Hakoma, the Supreme (or Unmanifested) Wisdom, and Ain-Suph the Endless; viz., three groups of triads of the Sephiroth and a fourth triad, composed of Sephira, Ain-Suph and Hakoma, the Supreme Wisdom which "cannot be understood by reflection," and which "lies concealed within and without the cranium of Long Face,"¶ the uppermost head of the upper triangle forming the "Three Kabalistic Faces," making up the twelve. Moreover, the twelve figures give two squares or the double Tetraktys, representing in the Pythagoræan symbology the two worlds—the spiritual and the physical. The eighteen inner and six central angles yield, besides twenty-four, twice the sacred macrocosmic number, also the twenty-four "divine unmanifested powers." These it would be impossible to enumerate in so short a space. Besides, it is far more reasonable in our days of scepticism to follow the hint of Iamblichus, who says, that "the divine powers always felt indignant with those who rendered manifest the composition of the Icosahedron," viz., those who delivered the method of inscribing in a sphere the Dodekahedron, one of the five solid figures in geometry, contained by twelve equal and regular pentagons—the secret Kabalistic meaning of which our opponents would do well to study.

§ According to Haug's Aitareya Bráhmana, the Hindu Manas (Mind) or Bhagavân creates no more than the Pythagoræan Monas. He enters the Egg of the World and emanates from it as Brahmâ, as itself (Bhagavân) has no first cause (Apûrva). Brahma, as Prajâpatî, manifests himself (as the androgyne Sephira and the ten Sephiroth) as twelve bodies or attributes which are represented by the twelve Gods symbolizing (1) Fire, (2) the Sun, (3) Soma, (4) all living Beings, (5) Vâyu, (6) Death—Shiva, (7) Earth, (8) Heaven, (9) Agni, (10) Âditya, (11) Mind, (12) the great Infinite Cycle which is not to be stopped. This, with a few variations, is purely the Kabalistic idea of the Sephiroth.''

http://www.blavatsky.net/index.php/views-of-the-theosophists/17-hpb...

Permalink Reply by Grace Cunningham on November 25, 2014 at 2:10pm
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Casady I enjoyed your post very much.  The idea of hierarchies takes on new meaning for me through the light of the Pythagorean Decad.  Thanks for pointing it out.

Permalink Reply by Casady on November 30, 2014 at 12:24pm
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Always a pleasure, never a chore - the beginning of the chapter ''Gods, Monads, & Atoms'' - (SD I, 3, 15) has some more good explanations on the topic, as well....

Permalink Reply by ModeratorTN on November 19, 2014 at 10:16pm
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From the Section    Saptaparna     SD i 231-237

Now every "Round" (on the descending scale) is but a repetition in a more concrete form of the Round which preceded it, as every globe—down to our fourth sphere (the actual earth)—is a grosser and more material copy of the more shadowy sphere which precedes it in their successive order, on the three higher planes. (See diagram in Stanza VI. Comm. 6). On its way upwards on the ascending arc, Evolution spiritualises and etherealises, so to speak, the general nature of all, bringing it on to a level with the plane on which the twin globe on the opposite side is placed; the result being, that when the seventh globe is reached (in whatever Round) the nature of everything that is evolving returns to the condition it was in at its starting point—plus, every time, a new and superior degree in the states of consciousness. Thus it becomes clear that the "origin of man," so-called, on this our present Round, or life-cycle on this planet, must occupy the same place in the same order—save details based on local conditions and time—as in the preceding Round. Again, it must be explained and remembered that, as the work of each Round is said to be apportioned to a different group of so-called "Creators" or "Architects," so is that of every globe; i.e., it is under the supervision and guidance of special "Builders" and "Watchers"—the various Dhyan-Chohans.

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on November 24, 2014 at 11:10am
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Here's an interesting ref. as to the division of the gods starting SDI:436

The secret doctrine gives a long genealogy of Rishis, but separates them into many classes. Like the Gods of the Egyptians, who were divided into seven, and even twelve, classes, so are the Indian Rishis in their Hierarchies. The first three groups are the Divine, the Cosmical and the Sub-lunary. Then come the Solar Gods of our system, the Planetary, the Sub-Mundane, and the purely human—the heroes and the Manoushi.

    At present, however, we are only concerned with the pre-cosmic, divine gods, the Prajâpati or the “Seven Builders.” This group is found unmistakably in every Cosmogony.

(437) “Coming out from the primordial water crowned with the uræus, which is the serpent emblem of Cosmic fire, and himself the seventh over the six primary gods issued from Father-Mother, Nou and Nout (the sky), who can Osiris be, but the chief Prajâpati, the chief Sephiroth, the chief Amshaspend-Ormazd! That this latter solar and cosmic god stood, in the beginning of religious evolution, in the same position as the archangel ”whose name was secret,“ is certain. This Archangel was the representative on earth of the Hidden Jewish God, Michael, in short: it is his ”Face“ that is said to have gone before the Jews like a ”Pillar of Fire.“ … 

And these archangels, therefore, are as ”certainly“ the Saptarishi of the Hindus, though it is next to impossible to class each with its pagan prototype and parallel, since, as in the case of Osiris, they have all so ”many names in towns and provinces.“ Some of the most important, however, will be shown in their order.

    One thing is thus undeniably proven. The more one studies their Hierarchies and finds out their identity, the more proofs one acquires that there is not one of the past and present personal gods, known to us from the earliest days of History, that does not belong to the third stage of Cosmic manifestation. In every religion we find the concealed deity forming the ground work; then the ray therefrom, that falls into primordial Cosmic matter (first manifestation); then the androgyne result, the dual Male and Female abstract Force, personified (second stage) ; this separates itself finally, in the third, into seven Forces, called the creative Powers by all the ancient Religions, and the (438) ”Virtues of God“ by the Christians. The later explanation and metaphysical abstract qualifications have never prevented the Roman and Greek Churches from worshipping these ”Virtues“ under the personifications and distinct names of the seven Archangels. In the Book of Druschim (p.59, 1st Treatise) in the Talmud, a distinction between these groups is given which is the correct Kabalistical explanation. It says:

    ”There are three groups (or orders) of Sephiroth. 1st. The Sephiroth called “the divine attributes” (abstract). 2nd. The physical or sidereal Sephiroth (personal)—one group ofseven, the other of ten. 3rd. The metaphysical Sephiroth, or periphrasis of Jehovah, who are the first three Sephiroth (Kether, Chochma and Binah), the rest of the seven being the (personal) seven spirits of the Presence“ (also of the planets).

    The same division has to be applied to the primary, secondary and tertiary evolution of gods in every theogony, if one wishes to translate the meaning esoterically. We must not confuse the purely metaphysical personifications of the abstract attributes of Deity, with their reflection—the sidereal gods. This reflection, however, is in reality the objective expression of the abstraction: living Entities and the models formed on that divine prototype.

Permalink Reply by Grace Cunningham on November 25, 2014 at 2:03pm
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When you say Pre-Cosmic does this refer to "prior to manifestation of any kind"?  Which level of manifestion is it?  Are you saying the Personalized Gods of history and the monotheistic religions are only reflections of their esoteric source?  Lastly, are not the Gods of the monotheistic religions like Jehovah, even though far removed from the Godhead, still unduly concretized by modern religion?

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on November 25, 2014 at 4:37pm
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Hi Grace, a very good question.

First of all, "I" am not saying it, apart from the first line, the whole text is a reference from SDI:436 to 438.

As a general "rule" one can make the distinction between the arupa (formless) and rupa (form) planes as seen in the diagram in SDI:200. The three higher planes of the seven being arupa and thus pre-cosmic, cosmos applying thus to the differentiated world or rupa planes of our globes and pre-cosmic to the arupa planes.

However! Keeping in mind what HPB points out in SDI:20-21, she is - throughout all our literature - consistently using virtually ANY term as a formula.

Manifestation strictly speaking starts with the first or unmanifested logos "forming" the abstract triangle which will become shekinah/kether/tetraktis, the very apex of the triangle we see on the 2nd arupa plane after which the first logos returns into darkness again. That's the first manifestation of the potential white point in darkness referred to in Transactions pp. 83-84. From kether is developed chokmah and binah (the "manifested" triangle on p. 200 on the 2nd and 3rd arupa plane). So this triangle represents the first manifestation, but there is no differentiation yet at this point. This triangle representing the three in one, we can refer to this stage as the pre-cosmic undifferentiated kosmos. When this three in one manifests in its turn, the rupa planes manifest as the differentiated cosmos (7 globes) in different stages (this process is explained inIsis Unveiled vol. II, pp. 212 and 213). So arupa is the manifested, but not yet differentiated, pre-cosmic stage, and the rupa the manifested AND differentiated stage.

However, here's the rub, we may as well - through correspondence - call the abstract triangle (kether or the tetraktis) the pre-cosmic stage and the triangle of kether/chokmah/binah the cosmic stage and the rupa the differentiated stage. It's all in HPBs application of the formula. Everything that is not the Absolute per se is relative to something else from OUR perspective (Epistemological or perception based on acquired knowledge or concepts). We are at present incapable of taking on an ontological perspective (a knowledge of things in themselves - see SDI:329-330). HPB gives the example in SDI:21 (bottom) of "the term Monad being one which may apply equally to the vastest Solar System or the tiniest atom". Replace Monad with virtually any other term - say noumena and phenomena, abstract and concrete, light and darkness, esoteric and exoteric, homogeneous and heterogeneous, visible and invisible, manifested and unmanifested, teacher and pupil, ad nauseam - and we get some grasp on her proposed formula. So apart from absolute consciousness, there is no esoteric, exoteric, homogeneous, heterogeneous, light, darkness, pupil, teacher per se - except in principle, as they are all relative to our perception on this plane, what is esoteric to us is exoteric for the Mahatma and so on.

This has the advantage for HPB of not having to become dogmatic and at the same time to relatively hide the esoteric from the exoteric, because as she points out in SDI:21 "all these Stanzas appeal to the inner faculties rather than to the ordinary comprehension of the physical brain." Our lower mind likes to nail things down, HPB continually prevents this by the use of that formula and forces us to appeal to our intuition. Add to this the fact that our lower mind is bound to a linear perspective (as in diagrams) whereas in reality all these planes of matter, globes and states of consciousness are in co-adunition (exist within each other) and we are apt to give up and go home :-)

So these relative perspectives perpetually confront us with paradoxes from which the lower mind has a tendency to shy away because they cannot be resolved within the cause-effect realm of the lower mind, but can be overcome by appealing to our intuition through meditation.

If we replace the word pre-cosmic with the term noumenon (the relative abstract or subjective or cause) that precedes the phenomenon (the relative concrete or objective or effect) then we can approach and perhaps understand the subject in a more "realistic" way. Kosmos by the way being the Greek word for an orderedsystem like a polished jewel and this may as well apply to either cosmic or pre-cosmic since the archetypes are eternal.

"Are you saying the Personalized Gods of history and the monotheistic religions are only reflections of their esoteric source?".

Yes indeed, based on all the foregoing - which by the way is just a suggestion and not cut in stone - we can see that the human mind has a tendency to grasp abstractions in terms of concrete representations and thus anthropormophizes philosophical concepts, i.e. gives them a human bend and imagery, whereas all our metaphysical abstractions are real living "beings" and/or intelligences (gods, hierarchies, powers, forces, etc.) outside of the realm of our human imagination. HPB points out that the more "abstract" or "noumenal" we go, the more we approach "reality".

"Lastly, are not the Gods of the monotheistic religions like Jehovah, even though far removed from the Godhead, still unduly concretized by modern religion?"

Yes :-)

Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on November 26, 2014 at 8:31pm
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Hi Pierre and Grace

There are a couple of points I remember  from SD Commentaries and some thoughts of my own that may or may not help to connect the dots.

A Sacred planet has its bodies (rupa) on the lower four planes of a system, but has its consciousness on all seven planes.

Therefore I am suggesting its Monad would have to be above these seven planes in another dimension/plane as the Monad is always above/beyond the seven levels as I understand it, like mans Monad on the Monadic plane beyond his seven, five or four bodies/levels depending on whatever system you use. Above Atman in other words. Therefore using this analogy the Cosmic/Universal Monad would have to be above its seven planes.

Also that first ever Ray is said to fall like a falling star through the planes of non-being until it strikes the first plane of being where it forms the triangle. Now she also tells us there is no such thing as planes of non-being, they all have beings on them it’s just that on these planes the life is beyond anything imaginable by those lives on the highest planes of being and that’s why they are called planes of non-being.

Some thoughts to ponder;    The first planes of being the abstract triangle/Universal Monad is on, if viewed from below maybe on the planes of non-being and the  Luminous Sons of Manvantaric Dawn, the Primordial Seven Rays containing everything to come, cover the  coming seven planes of the Universe.

Also during a Manvantara everything is recorded, including our conversations, and is absorbed back into the Absolute at Pralaya  where it is known as Absoluteness.  Then at the next Manvantara it all starts again, but this time one Cosmic/Universal plane higher with all previous knowledge gained and incorporated into the making of this new system, like our own rebirth. One might now suggest calling it The Absolute No 2 as a way of explaining it

A non-sacred planet like earth may, could, or would, have its consciousness on the rupa planes same as man, mental plane down. It cannot evolve without mankind doing likewise. Its goal is to become a Sacred planet conscious on all seven planes.

There is a good diagram on SD2 page 596 comparing human and cosmic principles. I have not the time to read about it but someone may like to check it out.  It appears what we call the Monad is the triangle represented above the seven levels.

 

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on December 7, 2014 at 4:01pm
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Hi James,

"A Sacred planet has its bodies (rupa) on the lower four planes of a system, but has its consciousness on all seven planes."

That could be the case, but it also depends on what you mean by planes, because every plane on p. 200 has the whole diagram again as subdivisions. Each of the globes on the rupa planes of p. 200 also counts as a plane in and by itself. We know that the sacred planets are also still subject to evolution, witness what HPB says concerning Venus for instance (a sacred planet), of which the life-wave is in its last or 7th round - without stipulating the globes which that life-wave may occupy in that round. So the 3 "highest" globes on the rupa (A, G & F) can also be considered arupa relative to the 4 lower globes, HPB sometimes applies the same even to our 3 higher principles as being arupa.

Do you have a ref. where it says that a secret planet's consciousness is on all the seven planes? I would be interested in consulting that statement.

The Monad per se (as in the Pythagorean Monas Monadum) is indeed beyond the planes (if we consider the planes as being within the Egg of Brahmâ) and is sometimes referred to as the Paramatman or the 1st Logos. Atman itself - in a certain sense - still being the highest principle, but Paramatman being no principle at all, nor even universal she says. One can also call it the potential white point in the dark (circle) - seeTransactions pp.83-84.

Yeah, indeed, there are no planes where no "beings" would or could exist, rupa (form) and arupa (no-form) are terms used in a relative sense, one plane to another, therefore as to the planes of non-being she often uses the word powers or forces, most likely to avoid anthropomorphizing the issue. Just as there is no homogeneous substance per se, only in a relative sense.

"The first planes of being the abstract triangle/Universal Monad is on, if viewed from below maybe on the planes of non-being and the  Luminous Sons of Manvantaric Dawn, the Primordial Seven Rays containing everything to come, cover the  coming seven planes of the Universe."

The abstract triangle being Kether or Shekinah (the apex only of the triangle we see on the arupa planes - see again Tr. 83-84) on p. 200 is indeed universal (being every point in infinite abstract and later objective space - therefore universal), whereas Paramatman is beyond that (and everywhere at the same time) - in fact Parabrahm or even Mulaprakriti depending on what perspective one takes.

The primordial Seven (the Luminous Sons of Manvantaric Dawn) are the Watchers, but this again applies in the sense of correspondence and thus equally applicable to every globe, see SD I:53

(a) The "Builders," the "Sons of Manvantaric Dawn," are the real creators of the Universe; and in this doctrine, which deals only with our Planetary System, they, as the architects of the latter, are also called the "Watchers" of the Seven Spheres, which exoterically are the Seven planets, and esoterically the seven earths or spheres (planets) of our chain also.

I think this statement also bears a relationship to the statement in SD II:77, the watchers are the "eight" or the "fifth" (out of 12 zodiacal hierarchies) depending on whether one counts from "below up" or from "above down".

"But who are "They" who create, and the "Lords of the Flame," "who do not"? Occultism divides the "Creators" into twelve classes; of which four have reached liberation to the end of the "Great Age," the fifth [or 8th, the Watchers - PW] is ready to reach it, but still remains active on the intellectual planes, while seven are still under direct Karmic law. These last act on the man-bearing globes of our chain."

" Then at the next Manvantara it all starts again, but this time one Cosmic/Universal plane higher with all previous knowledge gained and incorporated into the making of this new system, like our own rebirth. One might now suggest calling it The Absolute No 2 as a way of explaining it"

Hahaha, yeah, the Absolute #2, I see what you mean, one can call it as such if you like. Our problem is that we have no terminology - at least not in the west - to deal with these kinds of subjects, so we have to improvise :-)

"A non-sacred planet like earth may, could, or would, have its consciousness on the rupa planes same as man, mental plane down. It cannot evolve without mankind doing likewise. Its goal is to become a Sacred planet conscious on all seven planes."

Yeah, and as HPB points out in the Transactions, the Planetary Spirit of our Earth is (I paraphrase) "nothing to write home about" - speaking in a relative sense of course and witnessing the state of our present humanity.

"There is a good diagram on SD2 page 596 comparing human and cosmic principles. I have not the time to read about it but someone may like to check it out.  It appears what we call the Monad is the triangle represented above the seven levels."

Yes, an interesting diagram, but paradoxically represented, it looks like there's more to it than meets the eye, let me know when you get a grip on it :-)

Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on December 8, 2014 at 10:29pm
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Hi  Pierre
 "A Sacred planet has its bodies (rupa) on the lower four planes of a system, but has its consciousness on all seven planes."
 
Most of that was from Secret Doctrine Commentaries SDC, I have looked back and p 447-8 is the only one so far that i have found it on, I wrote what was my understanding of what she had said after she was asked about this from several direction.  You may see it differently.
She covers the seven globes on the four planes which are of nature and (she says) can only be perceived by Higher Manas, she also points out that the three higher planes are states of consciousness not planes as we understand planes, and do not belong to nature which you indicate as well.
 
Our problem is that we have no terminology - at least not in the west - to deal with these kinds of subjects, so we have to improvise.... Yes she actually gave us the answer to all of this with following statement SDC 5...: I think the best thing you could do would be to coin new English words. If you want to ever become Western philosophers, you had better not take from the Hindus, who will be the first ones to say: “Behold, these Europeans! they take from us all they can, disfigure everything and do no good.” Find equivalents for all these terms, coin new English words, and do not depart from them; and then there will be no confusion.
However she created a problem with this as on one hand she is saying “Get out of the Blavatsky/Hindu/Sanskrit Box”  on the other there are Theosophist/Lodges that state those who have done this are Neo-Theosophist peddling false Theosophy. So who is right HPB  or  her  followers?
 
Another statement of interest is;..There are breaks of forty stanzas, and there are stanzas that I would not be permitted to give. What can I do? I do the best I can.... This shows there maybe considerable  knowledge gaps in her work.
 
Also the Triangle I referred to she calls the manifested Logos with the Monad on abstract levels behind it which you indicate as well i think.
 
7 Ray Quote SDC 113; .. The Luminous Sons of Manvantaric Dawn, that proceed from point 3 of the Triangle, are the primordial seven rays from which will emanate, in their turn, all the other luminous or non-luminous lives, whether angels or devils, men or apes. These are the seven rays from which will come all the flames of being and everything in this world of illusion. The seven logoi. Everything, therefore, is there in the seven rays.
It appears that these Rays are reflected by/through different systems of the Universe on to lesser systems, ours having a close link to the Constellations of the Great Bear, Pleiades, and Sirius.
In Mythology the Seven Sisters of the Pleiades being the Seven Wives of the Seven Rishi’s of the Great Bear and between them produce the Seven Sons  of Light,
Now as there are said to be seven Solar System with ours one of. (E B). If we imagine one of these Rays (Ray 2 ) going through a similar process to the original Ray at the opening of the Universe and becoming the Triangle of the manifested Logos which in turn produces Seven Rays that contain all there is in our Solar System. When they have finished building they reside in the Seven Sacred Planets and carry on with the rest of their duties as watchers etc. with the Sun being the personality of the Solar Logos
I also remember reading somewhere that at the close of the Solar System these seven planets become Suns. Sons of their Father??
I have never bothered linking this all up so does it sound close or way off.
 
I will post if I find any more on Sacred Planet consciousness 

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on December 9, 2014 at 7:09pm
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Hi James,

just looked up your reference in the SDC. What HPB seems to indicate here, and which is in perfect correspondence with her "formula" of SD I:20-21 is that the planets ONLY exist on the 4 rupa or form planes. ALL the principles of a planet - including our own planetary chain, have their existence both in spirit (or consciousness) and matter on the 4 rupa planes. See SD I:153 where the correspondence between principles and globes is given in a diagram. What she points out in SDC is that the 3 highest globes G, A and F correspond to the 3 arupa planes of the whole 7-fold diagram in SD I:200, but they are not identical, they only correspond, since globe G, A and F are still on the rupa planes and thus in essence still of a material nature.

The triangle (Kether, Chokmah, Binah on the Arupa planes - the 3 in 1) represents the potentiality of G, A, and F before they manifest as individual globes on the rupa planes when they become the 1 in 3 instead of 3 in 1. On the arupa they represent a unity (as a triangle), on the rupa planes they represent 3 distinct globes or principles. In the same manner as our 3 highest principles are distinct of each other when manifested, but 3 in 1 as a potentiality and unity within Atman.

As there are 7 globes within 4 planes, then 4=7 makes sense, just like we can say 7=10 because 7 globes plus the triad on the arupa makes a total of 10 within 7 planes of the whole diagram. I can't recall the reference anymore - could be SD or Transactions - where HPB points out that planets are 7-fold and the sun is 10-fold, i.e, the sun includes the arupa planes, because it is a completely evolved Tetraktis. Therefore a planet will ultimately become a sun or star when it has completed it's 10-fold journey through the rupa and arupa. So the whole diagram of SD I:200 is an expanded or manifested Tetraktis, just like man.

Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on December 11, 2014 at 9:09pm
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Hi Pierre,
I see what you are saying but I am not sure if we are quite on the same page with a Sacred Planets consciousness and its evolution as I will try and explain another possible idea.
 
A sacred planet like Venus presumably is nearing  the end of its evolution it should compare with an Arhat nearing his end of earth life.
Now as I understand it an Arhat would have his consciousness on six levels and maybe working at the seventh level of human evolution, which should compare with a planet like Venus having its consciousness on say six planes at least working towards the seventh.
 
Now after an Arhat takes this initiation he no longer is subject to rebirth hence;  "Fire and Flame destroy the body of an Arhat, their essence makes him immortal.” (proem 6)"
As i understand it this concerns his Causal Body and any ties to the physical world, however he may create his own body for further work on earth if require or move on to another system of evolution.
At this stage his consciousness would presumably cover the seven states or levels up to Atman.
He would have cast out all the course particles from his vehicles of form, which is the elemental essence which the first three globes are made up of.
His vehicles while still in incarnation would consist mainly of Sattva quality material.
As these three globes are on the involutionary arc it would stand to reason that for a sacred planet they would be left behind as well leaving it with only consciousness on the seven planes like an Arhat.
As the consciousness of the essence of these three Globes have a desire to become solid it would stand to reason that they cannot evolve out of that particular system until that happens.
They either condense into, or become the consciousness of, the mineral Kingdom on a Globe 'D' in another system.  Now I went through this with Peter and some one else earlier this year and from memory that was the conclusion. We thought it was the solid mineral Kingdom of a Globe, but it may just be the consciousness, or both. I cannot remember what study it was
 
Providing that was a correct assumption, I would suggest to have a look at the Sun you said being 10, could it be the 7 states of consciousness covering the 7 planes plus the three points in the Triangle of the manifested Logos or Monad.
 
All of this could have a correlation to 'judgement day' when a certain percentage of mankind stops incarnating (the laggards HPB) and go into pralaya until another suitable Globe is ready for them to carry on their evolution.
Just ideas to check out
 
Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on December 11, 2014 at 9:56pm
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Hi Pierre ,  The end of one of Peters quotes on the elementals

ML 15 (Barker Edition)

Just for information, the reference to the elemental kingdoms becoming the physical bodies of mineral, vegetable and animal kingdoms in the next manvantara is in the same Letter 15, as above.  Talking of what happens after the end of the seventh round, the Mahatma writes:

"The old elementals-will rest until they are called to become in their turn the bodies of mineral, vegetable and animal entities (on another and a higher string of globes) on their way to become human entities . . ."  (ML 15)

Permalink Reply by barbaram on December 12, 2014 at 4:28pm
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James - However she created a problem with this as on one hand she is saying “Get out of the Blavatsky/Hindu/Sanskrit Box”  on the other there are Theosophist/Lodges that state those who have done this are Neo-Theosophist peddling false Theosophy. So who is right HPB  or  her  followers?
 
Barbara - I do not know who (HPB or her followers) is right.  Speaking personally, I find it helpful to study as much from the source as possible.  Otherwise, it gets very confusing.   Once I become familiar with the source, then I can compare the interpretation by others and  be able to recognize the differences. 
Permalink Reply by Peter on December 13, 2014 at 7:22am
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HPB is only saying* that some of the terminology she uses in her writings (e.g. the term 'Buddhi' was the one under discussion) doesn't have the same meaning as when those same terms are found in the Hindu scriptures.  Potentially this could lead to confusion and accusations that theosophists are disfiguring those scriptures. Hence her comment that it may be better to coin new terms for the Theosophical teachings she and the Mahatmas have given out.  The invitation was to change the terminology not alter the teaching.

(* In Secret Doctrine Commentaries, p5)

Permalink Reply by Kirk Marzulo on November 28, 2014 at 10:36am
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Thank you Pierre for your very clear and brilliant answer.

Please excuse the following if it has already been mentioned by others. I am stepping into this S.D. discussion after having been away for some time.

In studies of the idea of progressive emanation, beginning with the un-manifest as well as manifest logos, it always seems helpful to me to also reference what might be referred to as the "internal feeling" or higher "emotional" aspect of the process.

"We see that every external motion, act, gesture, whether voluntary or mechanical, organic or mental, is produced and preceded by internal feeling or emotion, will or volition, and thought or mind."

Vach, the Army of the Voice that you refer to, the whole series of hierarchies and their source which is the active cause of manifestation is also linked with Kwan Yin I the S.D:

"If Kwan-Yin is the "melodious Voice," so is Vâch; "the melodious cow who milked forth sustenance and water" (the female principle)—"who yields us nourishment and sustenance," as Mother-Nature. She is associated in the work of creation with the Prajâpati. She is male and female ad libitum, as Eve is with Adam. And she is a form of Aditi—the principle higher than Ether—in Akâsa, the synthesis of all the forces in Nature; thus Vâch and Kwan-Yin are both the magic potency of Occult sound in Nature and Ether—which "Voice" calls forth Sien-Tchan, the illusive form of the Universe out of Chaos and the Seven Elements." Vol 1, p 137

Can we not also link this idea with the "internal feeling" represented by the Kwan-Yin pledge, the Bodhisattvic vow to remain in incarnation until every sentient being is brought to full and complete enlightenment...and therefore with the idea of "Compassion Absolute" spoken of the in the Voice?

Similarly, in the Vedas, the first manifestation (of the unmanifest?) is linked with Kama-Deva, "the desire which first arose in it," explained in the Theosophical Glossary as "the first conscious, allembracing desire for universal good, love, and for all that lives and feels, needs help and kindness, the first feeling of infinite tender compassion and mercy that arose in the consciousness of the creative ONE Force, as soon as it came into life and being as a ray from the ABSOLUTE."

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on December 9, 2014 at 7:21pm
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Yeah, good reference Kirk. Especially your ref. to Kama-deva. Kama seems to be a much misunderstood principle and HPB's explanation in the Glossary clears up a lot of the confusion. Non of the principles are either good or bad, they simply represent different faculties of nature and man, when misappropriated by man - such as making kama personal by immersing our manasic principle into it - where it becomes kama-manas - gives it a slant towards good or evil.

There is a difference between fulfilling the natural desire of the body - because it is hungry - or making that desire personal by appropriating it for our personal benefit and becoming a glutton :-)

It is unfortunate that Eros (as Divine Desire and Compassion - an aspect of Atma & Karma) over the course of centuries has acquired the pejorative meaning which ought to have been attributed to Cupid. Eros is noetic, Cupid is psychic.

Permalink Reply by Gerry Kiffe on December 13, 2014 at 11:33am
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Would it be fair to say that noetic is by definition universal and psychic by definition partial?

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on December 13, 2014 at 12:50pm
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A very good point Gerry,

noetic (in a general sense, not in the strict Platonic sense) applies to the 3 highest principles of any 7-fold constitution, whereas psychic (also in a general sense) to the lower 4. Correspondingly however, in turn, each principle (being again 7-fold) has its own psychic and noetic constituents. 

HPB points out that the 3 higher principles are cosmic (thus universal) in nature, the lower 4 are "personal".

HPBs 2-part article on "Psychic and Noetic Action" (see H.P. Blavatsky, Theosophical Articles, Volume II, p. 7, Theosophy Company, L.A.) clears up a lot of the confusion, albeit not an easy article :-)

Permalink Reply by ModeratorTN on November 26, 2014 at 10:05am
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From the Section: Degrees of Consciousness          SD i 274-277

(6.) The Universe is worked and guided from within outwards. As above so it is below, as in heaven so on earth; and man—the microcosm and miniature copy of the macrocosm—is the living witness to this Universal Law, and to the mode of its action. We see that every external motion, act, gesture, whether voluntary or mechanical, organic or mental, is produced and preceded by internal feeling or emotion, will or volition, and thought or mind. As no outward motion or change, when normal, in man's external body can take place unless provoked by an inward impulse, given through one of the three functions named, so with the external or manifested Universe. The whole Kosmos is guided, controlled, and animated by almost endless series of Hierarchies of sentient Beings, each having a mission to perform, and who—whether we give to them one name or another, and call them Dhyan-Chohans or Angels—are "messengers" in the sense only that they are the agents of Karmic and Cosmic Laws.

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on November 26, 2014 at 10:56am
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It is useful to bring back to mind the statement made in SDI:38, as it reinforces the above statement from our present section regarding "The whole Kosmos is guided, controlled, and animated by almost endless series of Hierarchies of sentient Beings, each having a mission to perform"

"The AH-HI (Dhyan-Chohans) are the collective hosts of spiritual beings — the Angelic Hosts of Christianity, the Elohim and "Messengers" of the Jews — who are the vehicle for the manifestation of the divine or universal thought and will. They are the Intelligent Forces that give to and enact in Nature her "laws," while themselves acting according to laws imposed upon them in a similar manner by still higher Powers; but they are not "the personifications" of the powers of Nature, as erroneously thought. This hierarchy of spiritual Beings, through which the Universal Mind comes into action, is like an army — a "Host," truly — by means of which the fighting power of a nation manifests itself, and which is composed of army corps, divisions, brigades, regiments, and so forth, each with its separate individuality or life, and its limited freedom of action and limited responsibilities; each contained in a larger individuality, to which its own interests are subservient, and each containing lesser individualities in itself."

Especially this last sentence, that every being contains lesser developed intelligences and is itself part of a higher developed intelligence, another element pointing out that everything exists within everything. If we simply look at our body as an example, consisting of organs containing cells, microbes, viruses and so on, each in turn containing lesser "beings" and together forming the vehicle for higher "beings" in the whole range of hierarchies between spirit and matter.

Permalink Reply by Gerry Kiffe on December 13, 2014 at 11:25am
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The ideas you share here sure blows holes in the separate self concept.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on December 13, 2014 at 12:19pm
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True Gerry, nevertheless - in our manifested form we do indeed exist as "distinct" beings from others. We can make a big distinction between living as separate beings - which is an illusion, a mental anomaly - and living as distinct beings. Distinction does not necessarily negate the concept of unity.

It is hard for kama-manasic beings to conceive of a consciousness that encompasses both individuality and unity at the same time. It wants it either way, being subject to a dual existence. After all, individual comes from the Latinindividus, indivisible, an entitative existence within a unit, as the above quote from SD I:38 also seems to indicate. If the absolute is indeed absolute, then it necessitates the possibility of both states at the same time. The feeling of separateness on the other hand results from the sole identification - within space and time - of an individual with its vehicle(s) or persona (a mask) as being "separate" from others, thus veiling our perceptions.

Although HPB points out that the individual becomes "lost" in Nirvana (as the drop does in the ocean) at the culmination of a planetary chain going into pralaya or state of rest, nevertheless the same monad (or drop) re-emerges at a new dawn to continue its journey. So you can eat your cake and have it at the same time :-)

Permalink Reply by ModeratorTN on November 30, 2014 at 4:23pm
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From the Section:  The Divine Dynasties                  SD ii 365-373

Our races — they all show — have sprung from divine races, by whatever name they are called. Whether we deal with the Indian Rishis or Pitris; with the Chinese Chim-nang and Tchan-gy — their "divine man" and demi-gods; with the Akkadian Dingir and Mul-lil — the creative god and the "Gods of the ghost-world"; with the Egyptian Isis-Osiris and Thot; with the Hebrew Elohim, or again with Manco Capac and his Peruvian progeny — the story varies nowhere. Every nation has either the seven and ten Rishis-Manus and Prajâpatis the seven and ten Ki-y ; or ten and seven Amshaspends * (six exoterically), ten and seven Chaldean Anedots,
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* The Amshaspends are six — if Ormazd, their chief and Logos, is excluded. But in the secret doctrine he is the seventh and highest, just as Phtah is the seventh Kabir among the Kabiri. ten and seven Sephiroth, etc., etc. One and all have been derived from the primitive Dhyan-Chohans of the Esoteric doctrine, or the "Builders" of the Stanzas (Book I.). From Manu, Thot-Hermes, Oannes-Dagon, and Edris-Enoch, down to Plato and Panadores, all tell us of seven divine Dynasties, of seven Lemurian, and seven Atlantean divisions of the Earth; of the seven primitive and dual gods who descend from their celestial abode * and reign on Earth, teaching mankind Astronomy, Architecture, and all the other sciences that have come down to us. These Beings appear first as "gods" and Creators; then they merge in nascent man, to finally emerge as "divine-Kings and Rulers." But this fact has been gradually forgotten. As Bosuage shows, the Egyptians themselves confessed that science flourished in their country only since Isis-Osiris, whom they continue to adore as gods, "though they had become Princes in human form." And he adds of Osiris-Isis (the divine androgyne: — "It is said that this Prince (Isis-Osiris) built cities in Egypt, stopped the overflowing of the Nile; invented agriculture, the use of the vine, music, astronomy, and geometry."

Permalink Reply by Peter on December 13, 2014 at 6:51am
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James and Pierre,

I couldn't post this under James' reply because the thread has reached its maximum limit of replies.

James, the passage which you quoted from my earlier message (from The Key to Theosophy Study) about the elementals becoming in their turn the bodies of mineral, vegetable and animal entities, was in reply to your initial statement in that same thread that:

"The sum total of the Planetary Spirit will condense and become the mineral kingdom of a new planet in another Manvantara.."

I'm not sure we can conclude from the passage I offered that "A Sacred planet has its bodies (rupa) on the lower four planes of a system, but has its consciousness on all seven planes."

Would it be a helpful if you both were to offer a definition of what is a planetary spirit?

------

James reply to Pierre can be found at:

http://theosophynexus.com/group/secret-doctrine-study-group/forum/t...

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on December 13, 2014 at 6:25pm
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Hi Peter, sorry for the lengthy quotes, but it gives us some idea of the difficulty we encounter if we approach the subject solely from a rational perspective. HPB tries to explain that what she has to explain is beyond the understanding of the dual mind :-) I prefer to let HPB do the talking:

some excerpts from Transactions p. 47-50

"Q. With reference to … (6), where it speaks of the "Seven Lords," since confusion is apt to arise as to the correct application of the terms, what is the distinction between Dhyan-Chohans, Planetary Spirits, Builders and Dhyani-Buddhas?

 A. As an additional two volumes of the Secret Doctrine would be required to explain all the Hierarchies; therefore, much relating to them has been omitted from the Stanzas and Commentaries. A short definition may, however, be tried. Dhyan-Chohan is a generic term for all Devas, or celestial beings. A Planetary Spirit is a Ruler of a planet, a kind of finite or personal god. There is a marked difference, however, between the Rulers of the Sacred Planets and the Rulers of a small "chain" of worlds like our own. […]

 Q. What is it that made these planets sacred or secret?

 A. Their occult influences, as far as I know. 

 Q. Then do the Planetary Spirits of the Seven Sacred Planets belong to another hierarchy than to that of the earth? 

  A. Evidently; since the terrestrial spirit of the earth is not of a very high grade. It must be remembered that the planetary spirit has nothing to do with the spiritual man, but with things of matter and cosmic beings. The gods and rulers of our Earth are cosmic Rulers; that is to say, they form into shape and fashion cosmic matter, for which they were called Cosmocratores. They never had any concern with spirit; the Dhyani-Buddhas, belonging to quite a different hierarchy, are especially concerned with the latter. 

  Q. These seven Planetary Spirits have therefore nothing really to do with the earth except incidentally?

  A. On the contrary, the "Planetary"who are not the Dhyani-Buddhashave everything to do with the earth, physically and morally. It is they who rule its destinies and the fate of men. They are Karmic agencies. 

  Q. Have they anything to do with the fifth principlethe higher Manas? 

  A. No: they have no concern with the three higher principles; they have, however, something to do with the fourth. To recapitulate, therefore; the term "Dhyan-Chohan" is a generic name for all celestial beings. The "Dhyani-Buddhas" are concerned with the human higher triad in a mysterious way that need not be explained here. The "Builders" are a class called, as I already explained, Cosmocratores, or the invisible but intelligent Masons, who fashion matter according to the ideal plan ready for them in that which we call Divine and Cosmic Ideation. They were called by the early Masons the "Grand Architect of the Universe" collectively: but now the modern Masons make of their G. A. O. T. U. a personal and singular Deity. 

  Q. Are they not also Planetary Spirits? 

  A. In a sense they areas the Earth is also a Planetbut of a lower order. 

  Q. Do they act under the guidance of the Terrestrial Planetary Spirit? 

  A. I have just said that they were collectively that Spirit themselves. I wish you to understand that they are not an Entity, a kind of a personal God, but Forces of nature acting under one immutable Law, on the nature of which it is certainly useless for us to speculate. 

  Q. But are there not Builders of Universes, and Builders of Systems, as there are Builders of our earth?

  A. Assuredly there are. 

  Q. Then the terrestrial Builders are a Planetary "Spirit" like the rest of them, only inferior in kind?

  A. I would certainly say so.

  Q. Are they inferior according to the size of the planet or inferior in quality? 

  A. The latter, as we are taught. You see the ancients lacked our modern, and especially theological, conceit, which makes of this little speck of mud of ours something ineffably grander than any of the stars and planets known to us. If, for instance, Esoteric Philosophy teaches that the "Spirit" (collectively again) of Jupiter is far superior to the Terrestrial Spirit, it is not because Jupiter is so many times larger than our earth, but because its substance and texture are so much finer than, and superior to, that of the earth. And it is in proportion to this quality that the Hierarchies of respective "Planetary Builders" reflect and act upon the ideations they find planned for them in the Universal Consciousness, the real great Architect of the Universe. 

Q. The Soul of the World, or "Anima Mundi"? 

  A. Call it so, if you like. It is the Antitype of these Hierarchies, which are its differentiated types. The one impersonal Great Architect of the Universe is MAHAT, the Universal Mind. And Mahat is a symbol, an abstraction, an aspect which assumed a hazy, entitative form in the all-materializing conceptions of man."

From the Secret Doctrine Dialogues p. 101

"Mr. A. Keightley: Question 2. “Does the planetary spirit in charge of a Globe go into Pralaya when his Globe enters Pralaya?”

Mme. Blavatsky: The planetary spirits go into Pralaya at the end of the Seventh Round, not after every one of the rounds, because he is in charge of the Globe, and has to watch the workings of the laws even during the statu quo condition of the Globe when it goes into its time of rest, that is to say, during its inter-planetary Pralaya. I explain everything in The Secret Doctrine, and this is explained somewhere there. 

p. 473: Mr. Kingsland: Then what we have been calling the planetary spirits in the previous discussions are simply the Atman of each of the planets?

Mme. Blavatsky: Some of them. Because they are again divided into seven. This is the great mysterious number of this Manvantara, so you had better not mix up too many things, because you will be terribly confused, that is sure. 

p.478: Mr. B. Keightley: Question 8. Has a planet an individuality as a man has an Ego?

Mme. Blavatsky: It has. Its ruling spirit, or governor, as it is called in Pimander,5 is self-conscious. Any questions to that?"

Permalink Reply by Peter on December 15, 2014 at 3:21am
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Hi Pierre and James,

Thanks for the responses.  With the greatest respect to you both, you've not really answered the question, i.e., "Would it be a helpful if you both were to offer a definition of what is a planetary spirit?"

Pierre, I'm familiar with the extract from Transactions, and while I appreciate your preference to let HPB do the talking may I say that you're not usually shy of providing your own understanding of what she writes - an understanding which I invariably find illuminating and/or thought provoking. I'm sure other members also appreciate them.

James, I'm also familiar with the distinction between Akasa and the Astral light. What light do you feel this this throws on the question as to what is a Planetary Spirit and the underlying question you and Pierre are exploring re Sacred and Non Sacred Planets?

Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on December 17, 2014 at 2:12am
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Hi Peter,

 In answer to you question Peter it was to show that the 7 Globes, and/or their content come from the Astral Light and change with each cycle. 

From Astral Light Quotes;   The Astral Light - - - - is the  mother of the seven builders or Spirits of the Earth, which are not necessarily good,

Plus; The Astral Light changes not only with the Mahamanvantaras but also with every subperiod and planetary cycle or Round.

 Now as i understood from a statement of Pierre's (correctly or incorrectly understood by me) that he indicated these 7 Globes evolved with the Sacred Planet or Sun at the end of it cycle of which we both agreed Venus is  approaching.

My understanding is that these 7  Rupa Globes are only the vehicles of consciousness while it is still evolving and at the end of a particular cycle of evolution are left behind allowing consciousness to flower forth into a more advanced life form at a higher level, where it starts a new cycle, possibly at the bottom rung.

Of these 7 Globes 'from memory' the early ones become dormant before the end of the cycle like our early Races.

 Therefore I am wondering if too much emphasis is laid on the diagram of the 7 Globes and the Triangle, rather than studying the lives that are evolving through them.

 I think it is important to remember that the 6 higher Globes surround and completely inter-penetrate the 7th, our physical Globe with the Astral Light  being part of this, but also it is only the Astral Light strictly for our Globe, with other Planets Globes drawing their own individual plans from the Akasa which is above/behind this covering the Solar System possibly with a finer one  beyond.

One would suggest the Highest Spirit/overseer of the Earth draws it plan for Earth from the Akasa and brings it down reversing it for the Planetarys/lesser builders/ to work from.

Secondly the lives of the first three Globes are on the involution arc as you know and have yet to have experienced a solid physical life of any kind which as in our previous discussion.

Example was these 3 Globes appear to be made up of Elementals, nature spirits etc., which evolve into the mineral and vegetable kingdoms

 Also if we add to this the analogy HPB often uses between an incarnation of man and the 7 Races with man’s gestation period symbolizing the first two and a half Races and their development of the bodies. The birth symbolizing the coming of the Solar Angels with the spark of the mind eventually making the thinking man of today, for man from birth  there is the growing period where we slowly appropriated our physical, astral, and mental bodies then develop them more throughout this life. I even think she put this in seven year periods.

Now i am sure she used the same analogy with the 7 Globes as well.

 My understanding is still that Venus as a Sacred Planet, when it reaches its end of this cycle which it is approaching, it will evolve with a conscious memory (consciousness) of the Rupa  regions into its Triad & then Monad or whatever name you choose, but without the lower rupa forms it used.

 This maybe where there is a difference of ideas as the manifested Tetraktis is while it is still in incarnation conscious on all planes, as indicated by the Triangle as well as the square or form it is operating through, thus the Triangle within the square.

But at completion of its cycle the knowledge of the seven planes is withdrawn into the Monad leaving behind the body, or in the case of the Sacred Planet its 7 Globes

  Its Triple Ray being in the un-manifested or Monadic realms above the seven planes. Pythorgusis calls this un-manifested Ray the Monad.

For man, Planet, and Universe at completion of its cycle knowledge of the seven planes is withdrawn into the Monad leaving behind the body, or in the case of the Sacred Planet the 7 Globes

 Quote; When the triangle is complete it becomes the Tetraktis, or the Triangle in the Square, and is the dual symbol of the four-lettered Tetragrammaton in the manifested Kosmos, and of its radical triple RAY in the unmanifested, or its noumenon.  SD2-24

 Fire and Flame destroy the body of an Arhat, their essence makes him immortal.” (proem 6)

Just finish by saying a non-sacred planet’s consciousness would most likely not cover the area of the Triangle, therefore it may just be the square and the bottom line, or base of the Triangle

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Peter on December 18, 2014 at 5:12am
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James - thanks for responding more fully to my questions. You’ve provided us with some really good thoughts and questions to ponder on - much appreciated. I don’t have anything useful to offer at the moment to throw light on the point you and Pierre are discussing. The main reason for my question was so that I could get a better understanding of the difference in views that you and Pierre were offering - both of which I found very interesting.  

I can understand your concern about putting two much emphasis on the diagram of SD I 200, with the seven globes and the triangle.  However, when taken into account with the other diagram on SD I 153 (comparing the seven human principles and seven planets in our system) it does seem to fit with Pierre’s understanding of HPB’s statement, namely that the seven globes exist along with their respective states of consciousness across four planes. That said, since we invariably dealing with correspondences I’m not sure at the moment whether that adequately answers your proposal with regards Sacred Planet and its consciousness.  

HPB states that the planetary spirit “has nothing to do with the spiritual man” and “nothing to do with the three higher principles” (SD Commentaries pp100-101) that also would suggest to me that we have to be cautious in the inferences we draw as to what the four planes represent, given that globes 1 and 7 show a correspondence with the sixth and seventh human principles.  

My hunch is that while all diagrams are limited, in the sense that they only provide a limited representation of a living, multidimensional system, they do provide us with the shape of the underlying scheme of, say, evolution and manifestation.   This seems to be what HPB intends, if we take into account the “abstract formula” which Pierre refers to on SD I 20:

“The Stanzas, therefore, give an abstract formula which can be applied, mutatis mutants, to all evolution: to that of our tiny earth, to that of the chain of planets of which the earth forms oe, to the solar Universe to which that chain belongs, and so on, in an ascending scale, till the mind reels and is exhausted in the effort.” 

From this we might infer that the basic scheme of seven planets and their states of consciousness across four planes would also apply to a Sacred Planet, but this might need some further research.

You wrote: “My understanding is that these 7  Rupa Globes are only the vehicles of consciousness while it is still evolving and at the end of a particular cycle of evolution are left behind allowing consciousness to flower forth into a more advanced life form at a higher level, where it starts a new cycle, possibly at the bottom rung.”

I would put it slightly differently, namely, that each of the seven globes or planetary spirits is a composite in itself of those various types of consciousness (intelligences and semi-intelligences) that are ‘the builders’ (Cosmocratores) on the form side of nature.  These would range, say, from the lower dhyanis (who fashion the forms on the globes in our earth chain based on the ‘ideal plan’ projected into objectivity by the Lipika - see SD I 104)) down to the elemental kingdoms who are the spirits of the terrestrial elements.  The elemental kingdoms comprise those monads which will in future manvantaras pass on through the mineral, vegetable and animal kingdoms and eventually become ‘men’ and so on.  Those consciousnesses that collectively constitute the form side of nature when drawn together in specific composite forms also make up the vehicles used by those monads who are more advanced than themselves in their evolution, for example human monads.  This would seem to suggest that the more highly and spiritually advanced the ‘humanity’ of a planet might be, the higher the quality of ‘the builders’ (i.e. Planetary Spirit(s)) must also be.  

The relationship between ‘the builders’ and the Lipika (the recorders of Karma) is also seen in HPB statements that these ‘builders’ are the Karmic agencies which rule the destinies and fates of men.  (See, for example, Transactions  of Blavatsky Lodge, IV, page 48; SD II 247)

There’s an interesting section in HPB’s “The Mystery of the Buddha” which looks at the state of the astral principles (the ‘remains’) of one who has reached the stage of Buddha-hood. These astral principles are so purified and holy that they are no longer subject to the gradual dissolution that would normally take place in Kama-loka, once the spiritual Ego has parted from them to ‘enter’ Nirvana.  HPB says that such an astral entity shines by its own natural light and spirituality. (See CW XIV 383-384.)  Perhaps there’s a indication here as to the quality of ‘the builders’ who collectively form the Planetary Spirit(s) of a planet such as Venus?

Permalink Reply by Peter on December 18, 2014 at 5:20am
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For those who don't have a copy of the Secret Doctrine, below are the diagrams referred to in the above posts from SD I 153 and SD I 200.

Permalink Reply by Pierre Wouters on December 21, 2014 at 4:31pm
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Hi Peter,

my apologies for the slow response as I am in Australia right now.

From what I understand, the planetary spirit is the Mahat (individual self-conscious or planetary Ego or Demiurg) of our planetary chain, i.e., the aggregate of the 7 cosmic forces or hierarchies involved with the ruling of our planetary chain which involves both architects and builders. I think architects and builders also have to be approached from the perspective of the formula referred to in SD I:20-21.

We are all familiar with the concept of architects in our society and the function of builders - or contractors if you like - that turn the plan(s) developed by an architect into a structure. However, the architect that develops the plan for a house does not develop the individual tools and materials used by the builders, the community of builders (say plumbers and electricians) on their own level also have their own architects that design pipes, faucets, gutters, toilets, breakers, wiring, lights, switches and so forth. Therefore HPB refers in SD I:38 to these manifesting hierarchies as an army with all its requisite sub-hierarchies from the highest general down to the foot soldier.

As HPB points out in what I referenced before:

“And it is in proportion to this quality that the Hierarchies of respective "Planetary Builders" reflect and act upon the ideations they find planned for them in the Universal Consciousness [the Demiurg, or Mahat, the Architect that designs the plan for the whole house/planetary chain - PW], the real great Architect of the Universe.” ‘Universe’ in our case being our own planetary chain.

Although HPB (in Transactions) refers in the above sentence to Jupiter as being vastly superior to our Earth, the same principle of reflecting and acting upon the ideations in the universal consciousness applies equally to our own planetary chain albeit on a much inferior level. The same then correspondingly to a solar universe and so forth until the mind reals and is exhausted in the effort as HPB would say.

When the question was asked by Bertram Keightley “Has a planet an individuality as a man has an Ego?”, HPB points out that it has its own ruling spirit or governor whom is self-conscious, not to be mistaken with our self-consciousness of course. So, what appears to us as a sevenfold manifested hierarchy is in reality on its own plane one collective (planetary) mind or self-consciousness (Mahat). Although each of these seven hierarchies - with its own subdivisions - operates through distinct vehicles, yet their consciousness acts in unison or as a self-conscious Ego (again Mahat, as it corresponds with manas in man). We find a similar expression used by HPB in her article “Psychic and Noetic Action”: “Occultism regards every atom as an "independent entity" and every cell as a "conscious unit." It explains that no sooner do such atoms group to form cells, than the latter become endowed with consciousness, each of its own kind, and with free-will to act within the limits of law.” The ‘latter’ in the foregoing sentence referring to each cell acting as one individual consciousness (not self-conscious in the cell obviously), yet, the sum-total of all individual atomic or molecular consciousnesses constituting that cell. So each cell is an individual ON ITS OWN PLANE. 

We see the same principle being used again in SD I:38:

“a "Host," truly—by means of which the fighting power of a nation manifests itself, and which is composed of army corps, divisions, brigades, regiments, and so forth, each with its separate individuality or life, and its limited freedom of action and limited responsibilities; each contained in a larger individuality, to which its own interests are subservient, and each containing lesser individualities in itself.”

Therefore - I forgot where she mentioned this, probably also in “Psychic and Noetic Action” - HPB can say that our individual (lower) manasic consciousness is nothing more than the sum total of the consciousnesses of our individual cells, since they “stock” our memories of which, after all, our lower manas is primarily constituted and as such they form the "individual" consciousness of our “personality”, our “mask”.

So, to sum up, the “host” (to us) or planetary spirit is on its own plane a self-conscious ruling Ego, the aggregate of the seven planetary hierarchies, each of which has in turn its own self-conscious Ego or ruler, constituted in turn of again lesser individualities and so forth as mentioned in SD I:38

This is again corroborated in SD I:293 (bottom of the page):

“It is all esoteric, though not covering the tenth part of what might be said. For one, the six names of the Six Forces mentioned are those of the six Hierarchies of Dhyan Chohans synthesized by their Primary, the seventh, who personify the Fifth Principle of Cosmic Nature [Mahat - PW], or of the "Mother" in its Mystical Sense. […] Each of these Forces has a living Conscious Entity at its head,of which entity it is an emanation.”

All the foregoing applies to hierarchies (even including manasaputras - the incarnating ones) responsible for the material side of our planetary chain on the 4 lower subdivisions (out of 7) of the 4 rupa or form planes. The spiritual side of our planetary chain is ruled by what HPB refers to as the “watching Dhyani-Buddhas” or manasaputras corresponding with the 3 higher of the 7 subdivisions on these 4 rupa planes, just as our 3 higher principles (Atma-Buddhi-Higher Manas) form the “watchers” in our own 7-fold constitution, which I assume is what James is actually referring to but then in reference to the sacred planets (which our Earth is not).

Therefore, these "watching" Dhyani-Buddhas have nothing to do with the material evolution of the chain, although they may be related to the 7 sacred planets, I don't know. Correspondingly we might say that the 7 sacred planets form the manifested Mahat (or 5th principle of the solar system) just like our Primordial 7 hierarchies form the Mahat or 5th principle of our chain. I'm not going into detail here, because there are overlapping hierarchies which makes it all the more complicated. See SD I:213 and further.

All this is an application of the formula with its correspondences and analogies, keeping in mind that correspondence does not necessarily mean identical! The 7 planes as a whole in the diagram in SD I:200 should not be mistaken with the 7 subdivisions of each of the 4 rupa planes, but they do correspond. The 3 arupa (no-form) planes of that diagram are solar, the 4 rupa (form planes) are planetary, therefore that’s why our chain exists on only 4 rupa planes. HPB after all refers to the diagram as representing the solar system! When a chain eventually evolves through the 3 arupa planes as well, it will become a sun or star - see The Voice of the Silence pp.39-40 and footnote on p.39.

Again, this is my own understanding, or opinion if you like, of the teaching. Every student - in order to prevent it from being just a belief - has to come to his/her own conclusion(s), and if these are shared we may perhaps as a collectivity form one aggregate of consciousness :-)

Permalink Reply by Gerry Kiffe on December 24, 2014 at 12:59pm
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The idea that an individual is distinct on its OWN plane was most helpful to me.  Whether we talk about sub atomic particles in an atom, molecules in a cell, cells in an organ, organs in a body, a body in an ecosystem etc. etc.  You seem to get this same relationship over and over.  Distinct units comprising a group or whole.  It kind of leads to more clarity about how Harmony (Karma) would need to be the overarching Law.

Permalink Reply by Peter on January 5, 2015 at 3:25am
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Pierre - my turn to apologise for the delay in replying!  Many thanks for your post, which is very helpful and provides much food for thought.

Permalink Reply by james E Orchard on December 13, 2014 at 6:28pm
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Hi Peter and Pierre,
 
Here is some thing that may help, showing how the Astral Light changes every round. This should cover the six globes above the Terrestrial
 
TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE  96
 
The Astral Light is that which mirrors the three higher planes of consciousness, and is above the lower, or terrestrial plane; therefore it does not extend beyond the fourth plane, where, one may say, the Akâsa begins.
 
There is one great difference between the Astral Light and the Akâsa which must be remembered. The latter is eternal, the former is periodic.
The Astral Light changes not only with the Mahamanvantaras but also with every subperiod and planetary cycle or Round.

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