Ramprakash ML

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Ramprakash ML


  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    What did Plato mean by “Recollection ?” It couldn’t be recollection in the ordinary sense we use in daily life. What is the original Greek word which is rendered as Recollection, I wonder ? It must mean recalling to memory what we have forgotten of our true Self and nature, our real being, unborn, deathless.

    In Key HPB recalls three kinds of memory : Remembrance, recollection and Reminiscence.

    She says Reminiscence is the memory of the Soul – of the Reincarnating Ego, which is divine.

    If Plato’s statement that all learning is recollection, is restated as all learning is Reminiscence, then it makes sense.

    The object of all true education and learning should have as its chief object recovering the memory of our divine nature which we have lost. In Sanskrit it is SMRITI. It is Soul-memory.

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Plato says Justice subsists in the soul. Which means it is the Law of our Being, not outside of us.

    Where there is mind there is action, action produces reaction which not only affects the producer of action but all others as well for good or ill

    There is no Karma unless there is a being to make it or feel its effects

    If action of ours is perfectly unselfish, in tune with universal harmony, such action produce no results that bind the producer of action but are burnt to ashes in the fire of Spiritual knowledge

    We are all trying to learn this Path of Right Action

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 4 weeks ago by  Ramprakash ML.
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  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Hi Barbara

    A very important question.

    Antahkarana (also pronounced as Antashkarana) literally means Internal organ.

    It has one meaning in Vedanta, and quite another in Theosophy.

    In Vedanta Antahkarana means mind (chitta), intellect, Buddhi

    In Theosophy it means the higher aspect of Lower Manas.

    Lower Manas has two aspects : One caught up and imprisoned in Kama; and the other rising higher than Kama and capable of controlling it, the better part of man or the purer part of man, which links him to his Divine Ego.

    It is part of the Lower Manas, and is the Path or bridge between the Higher and the Lower Manas, between the Divine Ego and the personal soul of man.

    It “conveys from the Lower to the Higher Ego all those personal impressions and thoughts of men which can, by their nature, be assimilated and stored by the undying Entity, and thus be make immortal with it, these being the only elements of the evanescent personality that survives death and time.” (Theosophical Glossary)

    We are taught that personality has to keep this “bridge” constantly in use by higher aspirations, kindness, compassion, gratitude, unselfishness, charity.

    If not, if evil tendencies of Kama Manas are allowed to grow and become predominant character of the man, then a terrible calamity will occur : destruction of the Antashkarana; nothing of nobler qualities will be there that Antashkarana can convey to the Higher Ego after the death of man. It is the spiritual death of man.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel Axentiev
    June 15, 2017 at 3:48 pm #5838
    Ram, could you please explain what is the source of Eternal Verities (on which higher dialectics is based)?

    As far as I understand Plato, Eternal Verity, or Truth, is that which is self-existing, which always IS, the Real Being, without generation, subsists by itself. It is apprehended by intelligence in conjunction with Reason (Theosophically, it means, it is apprehended by Buddhi-Manas) It is the source of of all that is most excellent in divine perfection, like Justice which subsists in Soul.

    That which is generated is subject to change, and is non-eternal, in a state of corruption, and is perceived by “opinion” in conjunction with “irrational sense” (In theosophical parlance, by Kama-Manas, for Kama is irrational Soul)

    Generated universe is “sensible,” is “generated paradigm, and the Real Being is “Intelligible.”

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel and Peter

    As far as I understand Thomas Taylor’s ingenious rendition of Plato’s dialogues, Peter’s rendering of Noetic action as two-fold activity–one on the plane of Ideas, on the one hand, and discursive thought at the level of the mind, on the other–do not seem to me to be correct. (Pardon me, Peter, if I have misunderstood your meaning, in which case, I beg your pardon and would ask you to correct me)

    I am afraid, to connect Noetic activity to discursive thought would be philosophically hazardous.

    The word discursive has two meanings : 1. Passing aimlessly from one subject to another ; digressive ; rambling ; and, 2. Proceeding by reasoning or argument rather than intuition.

    Neither of the two thought processes come anywhere near what is meant in the Dialogues as Nous, as noun, and Noetic, as adjective.

    Rather than “Discursive,” the term “dialectic” would seem to me to be more appropriate. Still, Dialectic is not Noetic, the latter being far higher than the former, as, to put it in Theosophical parlance, higher Buddhi-Manasic activity on the divine plane is higher than the higher psychic on the terrestrial plane.

    Perhaps, we may better understand the difference between the two poles of perception–spiritual and personal–if we consider Taylor’s discourse on four degrees or modes of knowledge : Opinion, Science, Dialectic, and, lastly, Divine Reason.

    By OPINION he says is to “learn that a thing is without knowing the why,” and that Aristotle and Plato called this degree of knowledge as Erudition. It consists in moral education. Perhaps, we can say, all exoteric religious moral instructions, such as, the Sermon on the Mount, practice of which are necessary and incumbent on all people for their happiness here and hereafter, and for which, it is not necessary for them to reason and know the philosophical foundations of the ethical injunctions.

    Next is SCIENCE : He says : “By establishing certain principles as hypotheses, we adduce necessary conclusions, and arrive at the knowledge of the why (as in the mathematical sciences) but at the same time we are ignorant with respect to the principles of these conclusions, because they are merely hypothetical.”

    The many remarkable conclusions modern science has arrived at, especially in the quantum field theories, which seem to corroborate SOME of the insights of the ancient Sages as to the nature of Reality, may be cited as an example. Modern science has arrived at those conclusions from solely mathematical logic but based on certain hypotheses. They cannot go further than that because they do not admit the Ontological epistemology of ancient Wisdom-Science.

    The third mode of knowledge is DIALECTIC. What is dialectic ? Taylor says of it, it is that “in which, by a progression of ideas, we arrive at the FIRST PRINCIPLES OF THINGS, and at that which is no longer hypothetical, and this by dividing somethings and analyzing others, by producing many things from one thing, and one thing from many.” this kind of higher reasoning proceeding from the Universal axioms, it seems to me, is well exemplified in “The Preminides.”

    Taylor cautions us against misconstruing Platonic Dialectic with vulgar dialectic.

    The latter dialectic may be called discursive thought. Of it, he says, “is produced by the cogitative power of the soul converting itself to opinion, and deriving its reasoning from thence.” This is purely Aristotlean logic, according to Taylor, which our modern science has embraced.

    All our “trans-personal psychology” research activities are of this kind or mode of knowledge; they tend to opinion, and will not rise to higher Noetic thought for reason stated in the foregoing.

    What is Platonic DIALECTIC ?

    Taylor seems to say that it is a method of primary sciences, proceeding from universal principles and descend into particulars, imitating the progressive emanations of Beings from the ONE ; and converting the many particulars back into the ONE, their original CAUSE. He also says that this is not merely theoretical without demonstrable proof, but is followed by irrefutable proof.

    The three fundamental propositions of the S.D., on which the whole Wisdom-Science revolves, and the Ten propositions of Oriental psychology, are admirable examples. H.P.B. uses Platonic dialectic method in demonstrating to our higher reason and awakening Intuition (Buddhi) the great truths of cosmo-anthropo genesis. Does she not use divisions and resolutions, definitions and demonstrations, reasoning from Universals to particulars and from particulars to universals–as is done in Dialectic of Plato–in giving us irrefutable
    truths of the mysteries of Being ?

    This is by no means merely Discursive cogitation.

    Says Taylor : “But vulgar dialectic is entirely destitute of irrefragable demonstrations, on account of its being solely derived from opinion.”

    Taylor’s introduction to The Permenides is a superb demonstration of this divine science–of the higher Dialectic.

    Lastly, DIVINE REASON, or ILLUMINATION. Dialectic must lead to Illumination–awakening of Buddhi–in the Voice it is said, “Buddhi considered as an active instead of passive principle (which it is generally. when regarded as only the vehicle, casket of the Supreme Spirit ATMA)……” Awakening of higher Kundalini, a creative force. Of this last, Divine Reason, Taylor says :

    “But the fourth species is still more simple than this; because it no longer uses analyzations or compositions, definitions or demonstrations, but by a simple and self visive energy of intellect, speculates things themselves, and by intuition and contact become one with the object of its perception; and this energy is the divine reason….which far transcends the evidence of the most divine revelation; since this last is at best founded in opinion, while the former surpasses even the indubitable certainty of science.”

    In other words, Samadhi, “Epoptia” of the old Greeks.

    [Quotations and references are from “Plato, translated from the Greek by Thomas Taylor, The Secret Doctrine reference series, Wizard Bookshelf, Minniapolis 1975]

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    That is true, that even the highest minds in the Western intellectual culture have failed to fathom the depth of transcendental wisdom of Plato, except one–whom HPB greatly admires and gives him the full credit for correctly understanding Plato and render his teachings in Greek most faithfully into English. He is the great Platonist, Thomas Taylor. Students can easily corroborate it by reading him and compare it with other translators. Taylor has reverential and devotional approach to Plato, and it is his Higher Manas which comes into full flow in his rendition Plato’s dialogues, while with others it is mere lower intellectuality.

    Allegories of Plato can be a very fruitful study. HPB shows that Plato was an Initiate, and, as such, was bound to sacred oath of secrecy which no Initiate ever dare break. Hence we find Plato often talking in vague terms, sometimes evasive, and often in myths. For instance his discourse on origin of Greeks is a veiled reference to the advent of earlier races–perhaps, III or IV Root Races, and his reference to sinking of Posedonis, an Atlantean Island, and an account of the civilization that flourished on it, is again a veiled reference to the mighty civilization of IV Root Race on a mighty continent of what in SD is called Atlantis. His talk of prediluvian Greeks has reference to the Atlantean civilization.

    All that is taught in SD, in cosmo- and Anthropogenesis can be discerned in Timaeus.

    He purposely confuses chronology of events, as is done in Indian Puranas, as a matter of policy to conceal truth from the uninitiated.

    Before every discourse, he shows Socrates invoking gods and goddesses, which is purely Hindu tradition which is followed in India by the devout Hindus to this day.

    If one studies Plato, one has studied the Vedas.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.
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  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Thanks Pavel I read the article you referred to.

    ” Structural and dynamical similarities among different real networks suggest that some universal laws might be in action, although the nature and common origin of such laws remain elusive.”

    Should remain elusive for ever unless science picks up enough courage and embraces universal axioms of Occult philosophy. For the Western mind the best point of departure from the Inductive logic, to which it has remain wedded, is the Platonic method of proceeding from the universal axioms and descend into particulars, so well illustrated in Perminides and Timaeus.

    “The human Monad or Ego is therefore akin to all below it and heir to all above it, by indissoluble bonds to spirit and Matter, “God” and “Nature.” The Attributes it gathers, and the faculties that it unfolds, are but the latent and dormant potentialities awakening to conscious life. The tissue cells constitute man’s bodily structure, but the order in which they are arranged, the principles upon which they are grouped, constituting the human form, is not simply an evolved shape from the lower animal plane, but an involved principle from a higher plane, an older world, viz., the ‘Lunar Pitris.’ ” (Judge’s article on ‘Synthesis of Occult Science,’ Judge article vol. I, p. 30-31)

    Lunar Pitris evolve the ethereal model of the human form on the perfect pattern of Heavenly Man, Adam Kadmon or manifested Logos (Mahat), over 300 millions of years in the earlier three Rounds, before our fourth was reached.

    Human Mind is an efflux from above, containing the potentialitiies of Cosmic Mind, and the human brain itself is formed after the pattern of Mahat. (Transactions of Blavatsky Lodge, p. 28)

    In every cell one can see the same universal pattern, the same laws that operate in cosmos.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Yes, I remember to have seen a report somewhere that configuration of worlds in the galaxy exhibit a remarkable resemblance to pattern of arrangement of cells in the tissues of the body – or, somewhat to that effect.

    David Bohm speaks of implicate order.

    Can you give some examples ?

    How does this differ from the law of analogy used in occult philosophy ?

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Peter, the definite article THE used in the text of the first object is indeed significant. So it seems to me. It seems to have its raison d’etre in the well proven fact by millennia of experience, expressed in the maxim ” Many are called but FEW are chosen,” which is repeated in the 3rd verse of the 7th chapter of the Bhagavadgita.

    It is very easy to talk of Brotherhood but to live it out is another matter, and that’s where we fail. History of the TM is full of the illustration of it.

    Finally, it is only THE FEW, (to whom the Voice of the Silence is dedicated) can really form the nucleus.

    Master M wrote to HPB in London in 1884 : “It is a hard task to combine so much poor material into a strong and perfect organization….” (Jinarajadasa edition of Letter from the Masters of Wisdom).

    Intellectual Theosophy flourishes, but it is the Heart Doctrine alone that matters, and that is difficult to come by.

    “Great sifter is the name of the Heart Doctrine, Disciple.” (Voice)

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.
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  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    James
    April 3, 2017 at 1:29 pm #5326

    James,
    In the first place I must apologize to you if I offended you in any way with my remarks about the need to stick to HPB’s teachings and the terms she proposed we should use, and about uncalled for interpretations of SD some students have indulged in. The latter point was independent of the thread of discussion about evolving new terms. I am sorry, I have a habit of using strong language and giving our forthright views, rather undiplomatically, which offend sensitive people, though I do not mean any offence. I need to get over the habit.

    Coming to the point you have made about evolving technical terms in English :

    I appreciate the point you have made, that the esoteric instruction of HPB, gathered in CW, are not included in the terminologies she has given in the Key, and that we ought to take them also into consideration in working out appropriate terms in English for various principles mentioned therein.

    I look at the question from a different angle, with which my fellow students may not agree, but about which I have strong conviction. I have two reasons why your proposal does not seem appropriate to me :

    1. Much of material in cw seems to be private instructions of HPB to her very close students, who were supposed to keep it secret. HPB never intended that they should fall in the public domain. But much of it seems to have leaked out to the public because of betrayal, by some renegade students of hers, of the trust she had reposed in them.

    The question is, because some of her private teachings meant only to her very close students, and which she intended to be confidential, has fallen into the public domain, is that the reason I make free use of it? Analogically, if some private property is stolen by some and scattered in public places, will I help myself to them and take it home ? They are not mine, and I do not have right to them, and if I do take them, I commit theft. If this is so even in ordinary mundane life, how much more force the moral implication of it should be in regard to sacred lore of the Masters !

    This question has always stared me in the face. That’s why I dissuaded myself in even taking a cursory look at “stolen material” put out on the websites and publications. I refuse to look at them. My reverence for our great Guru, HPB, bids me to honour her wish, which under no circumstance will I ever betray though that Being is no longer in the body she used. If I don’t have even such common elementary morality how can I spiritually benefit from her teaching, though I may seem to shine in intellectual attainment by intellectual study of Theosophy ? Intellect alone, says Judge, leads us all to hell–a profound occult truth he has spoken.

    If I deserve to learn the HPB’s esoteric teachings they will come to me somehow, if I don’t desrve, they will not. In either case, I have my duty plainly set forth in Theosophy.

    2. So my position is — whether my friends agree or not — let us work on the teachings HPB gave out freely to the world at large. There is so much of it that even one’s lifetime in its fullness is not sufficient to thoroughly master it, assimilate it and make it a part of our being so as to become–as HPB implored us–each on of us, a centre of Theosophical work from which spiritual influences radiate, which alone can regenerate the world, our fellowmen. True esoteric instructions come only thus, in progress of time, as Krishna promises in the Bhagavadgita (4th and 10th chapters–pp 36 and 71, Judge’s)

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Kristen. I cannot agree with you more. While use of technical terms is unavoidable in Theosophical study forum such as this, it is wise to always bear in mind that terms / words are only verbal representations of realities / truths, and as much as possible focus our attention on the realities themselves, and we must attempt to express our understanding of the truths in our own words, over and above the established technical terms.

    HPB does it in SD. While she uses certain Sanskrit or English terms to explains certain truths in one place, she deals with the same truths and ideas using altogether different terms, such as, in Chinese, Tibetan, Hebrew or Mazdean traditions. She, perhaps, did it with intention of helping us not to get stuck in symbols and terms themselves but go beyond symbols and try to apprehend the truth itself. For example, the reality represented by the Sanskrit term Para-brahm, is elaborated elsewhere using the Hebrew term Ain-Soph, and Adi-Buddha in another place, and so on, with many other axioms and terms.

    In regular Theosophical study in which students belonging to many theosophical denominations and new inquirers participate, it is important that standard terms as given by the original Teachers, and the meaning They have given them, are used.

    It is not easy to substitute English words for Sanskrit terms. For instance, Sanskrit word Atma has built in its very etymology the the essential truth it represents : Ah, expiration signifying breath, motion; also swara, sound. The English word Spirit is a poor substitute.

    Agni is another word. Fire is a poor English translation. Agni comes from the root idea : aagre navaniti iti agni, meaning that which was Motion in the beginning is Agni. Which means Absolute Abstract Motion, in one sense, and Cosmic Motion–a reflex of the former–in another sense, Motion being the ultimate source and the cause of all that was, is and will be, and Agni, in this sense, is a perfect synonym of Atma, and swara.

    As Theosophists grow and evolve, the language they use, English, will also pari passu evolves. It has to be a slow process.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    It is better we stick to the terms HPB clearly defined, and proposed by her to be regularly used, in her Key to Theosophy. That will be the best. Otherwise the new inquirers would be confused.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    Pierre, you are right. The terms Nirvana and Moksha are interchangeable. They virutally mean the same–as far as my understanding goes.

    I doubt the correctness statement that Nirvana is a Buddhist term. I think both are used in Hinduism even before the Sakhyamuni appeared on the scene.

    For instance, the last verse on the 2nd chapter of the Bhagavadgita the word “Brahma Nirvana” is used. It reads in Sanskrit:

    “Eshaa Braahmee sthithih paartha nynaam praapya vimuhyati
    sthitvaa asyaam anta kaale api BRAHMANIRVAANAM ritchchati

    It looks like two stage development are spoken of here : 1. Braahmi Sthith ; and 2. Brahmanirvana

    First is entering the state of Brahmaa. It must be apara-Brahma, ie., consciously entering manifested One Life, the Heavenly Man. Saguna-Brahma. The second step thereafter is Brahmanirvana, which seems to be the state of Nirguna or parabrahma.

    Bhagavata Purana speaks of five progressive stages of Mukti : saalokya, saarshtri, saameepya, saaroopya, and finally saayujya, the highest.

    Krishna speaks of even the one higher than the last mentioned : Rejection of it to remain behind to serve all creatures. This, it is taught, is the highest Bhakti–Devotion.

    Nirvana seems to have the etymological root, Niraavarana – all veils or coverings (aavarana) cast aside.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    “The senses, moving to their apppropriate objects, are producers of heat and cold, pleasure and pain, which come and go and are brief and changeable; these do thou endure, O Son of Bharata. For the wise man, whom these disturb not and to whom pleasure and pain are the same, is fitted for immortality.” (Bhagavadgita, chapter 2)

    Endurance of pain and the unpleasant without complaint or horror, or shirking, not to be elated when pleasure comes, but maintain equal-mindedness is a practice we all can attempt.

    It is one of the tests of our fitness for initiation into Mysteries.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
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    Ramprakash ML

    HPB’s prophecy way back in 1888 about climate change has come so true !

    Human action has significant effect on the biosphere and climate.

    Our civilization has been blind and reckless. Never in the known history, the world has witnessed such environmental and ecological devastation and social injustice.

    All this is due to that one single reason : ignorance of the nature of Self.

    There is a verse in the Sanatsujatiya episode of the Mahabharata in which Sanatsujata says to the effect that :

    He who regards self, which is other than all this, to be what it is not, what sin will he not commit, he, the self-deluded thief!

    Thief indeed is the creature of the modern exploitative, competitive civilization.

    All monstrosities proceed from this one single cause : Ignorance of the true nature of Self – Avidya.

    How desperately Theosophy pure and simple is needed in this world of sorrow is felt with a keenness proportional to the depth of our understanding of Theosophy, and view of our world in that higher light.

    Theosophy alone, and nothing else, can save it.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Fergus,

    what you have quoted from the Gospel of the Buddha seems to the correct idea about Anatma :

    ““In The Gospel of Buddha [by Paul Carus], we find the following statement given as part of a discourse by the Buddha: ‘That which men call the ego when they say ‘I am’ is not an entity behind the skandhas; it originates by the cooperation of the skandhas.’ ”

    Therefore the personality, the sense of I and Mine distinctly separate from others, is an illusion, because non-eternal, that which arises as a result of a chain of causes and effects called Nidana.

    The personal idea is to be gotten rid of if we will ever realize the true self. But it is so difficult–so difficult that the Buddha says that it is easier to raise an army and conquer the world than the conquest of self, and Jesus saying that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for man (whether rich or poor) to reach the Kingdom of Heaven.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Excellent contribution, Kristan. Thank you. Pahlavi texts you have quoted echo the very same axioms of Universal Science of Life which find resounding in the Upanishads (in which is included Bhagavadgita) and Buddhas’s Dhammapada, Plato’s Phaedo, Timeaeus, of the divine voice of Jesus in the Gospels. Same grand Truths !

    Hence it is that ” “True Theosophists belongs to no cult or sect, yet belongs to each and all.” (Declaration of ULT)

    Theosophy breaks down, with the brilliant light of spiritual knowledge, the artificial barriers erected by man in the darkness of his ignorant mind which splinters One grand Universal Truth into many sectarian mutually antagonistic, warring fragments.

    HPB says : “Polarity is universal, but the polarizer lies in our own consciousness. In proportion as our consciousness is elevated towards absolute truth, so do we assimilate it more or less absolutely.” (“HPB Article “What is Truth?” in HPB Article vol. I. p. 2)

    This elevating one’s purified consciousness towards ones Higher Self is our Dharma, our self-evident Duty — rising towards one’s Khavareana as the Avesta says. Higher Self, our Farvarshi, is ALL SELF. There is but ONE SELF. So, devotion to ones Higher Self is Devotion to Humanity without distinction of race, creed, caste or colour. Universal Brotherhood.

    For Humanity is manifestation of Logos (Heavenly Man) on earth.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Thanks Peter for the valuable contribution. Translator rendered the Greek tern anamnesis as recollection probably because the English word Reminiscence is not as much in use as the other two cognate terms–remembrance and recollection–and, moreover, all the three terms are used generally as synonyms.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Scientific approach to Theosophy is intellectual.The heart of Theosophy is seen and felt in the great works of the poets of the British and American Romanticism – of late 18th and early 19th century.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    It seems that when all the forces are equalised at the end of the great period of manifestation–ie., at the end of the cycle of the life of the world system–all differentiations are resolved back into primordial homogeneity. This is beautifully said in the Stanza i verse 7

    “The causes of existence had been done away with; the visible that was, and the invisible that is, rested in eternal Non-Being–the One Being.”

    Subsequent verses singing of that state of Non-Being are unsurpassed in poetical beauty.

    This is said to be the natural state of the universe or Nature, the state of Absolute Being, Para-Nirvana.

    But it is not devoid of life; “Life pulsated unconscious in the universal space, through that All-Presence which is sensed by the opened eye of the Dangma.”

    When nothing was, how could there be the Eye of Dangma ? That is a different story, explained in SD elsewhere which can be considered later. But coming to the point …

    Even Para-nirvana, the duration of which is equal to that of the Maha-manvantara, the age of Brahma (100 years of Brahma), which in terms of human years runs into some 14 figure, utterly incomprehensible to human mind, has an end.This must be, because Karmic causes generated collectively by beings in the cycle that ended still remains to be adjusted. This will cause another going forth.The new wheel, it is said, is constructed on the lines of the older wheel (according to the collective Karma of the Beings involved)

    It is endless cycles of Being running their rounds without beginning or end in field of Absolute Non-Being.

    “This Law–whether Conscious or Unconscious–predestines nothing and no one. It exists from and in Eternity, truly, for it is ETERNITY itself; and as such, since no act can be co-equal with eternity, it cannot be said to act, for it is ACTION itself…” (SD, II, 304-305)


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    I don’t think you were very wrong Gerry.

    The quote from SD, 1, 113 in the forgoing synthesizes the threefold designation of the Supreme which is ONE, and THAT “we” are!

    To work out the English equivalent of the three, well – we have to think it out. Without Latin and Greek terminologies it may be difficult to rep in only English language. The language has to evolve in the course of the spread of Theosophy over the years

    Can we find Latin and Greek equivalents of the theee ?

    Anyone good in the old classical languages help ?


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    I like the concluding remark :

    “ At the same time, the use of analogy and correspondence can lift rational thought out of the merely linear mode of thinking and logic by providing a depth and breadth to our endeavours at understanding.”

    So very true. If ONE, not many, or, One in many and many in One is true, then many are the many aspects of that One, and, therefore, every thing is an image of the One, and every process and working in the universe bears an analogical relation to every other

    St Paul said that this world of ours is an enigmatic mirror of pure Truth


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Between Tad and Sat there seems to be no difference at all for us so far as we can with our limited perception can comprehend. Both terms seem to address the Absolute Unknowable. Hair-splitting anaysis of the abstraction seems to be an exercise in futility.

    But AUM is something comprehensible —intelligible, in Platnoic language, which we can meditate upon, in its threefold universal manifestation.

    The following passage from the SD on three steps or atrides of Fohat, is an excellent meditation on AUM which points to the Oneness of Absolute Being, Heavenly Man, and terrestrial Man :-

    “Stepping out of the circle of infinity, that no man comprehendeth, Ain Soph (the Kabalistic synonym for Parabrahm, for the Zeroana Akerne, of the Mazdeans, or for any other ‘UNKNOWABLE’) becomes ‘One’—-the ECHOD, the EKA, the AHU—-then he (or it) is transformed by evolution into the many, the Dhyani Buddhas, or the Elohim, or again the Amshaspends, his third Step being taken into generation of the flesh, or ‘Man.’ And from man, or Jah-Hovah, ‘male-female,’ the Inner divine entity becomes, on the metaphysical plane, once more Elohim.”

    (SD, 1, p 113)


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    “God dwells wherever we let him in”

    How do we take it when there is no God ?

    HPB somewehre says on the question of God to the effect that it depends on what we mean by that term

    If we ascribe anthropomorphic attributive to Reality —things as they are, not as we think or conceive, or things in themselves — then, of course, we fall into a series of logical fallacies.

    Yet That has to be referred to in some way, by some symbol, some conception.

    Nearest to truth would be to refer That as Self or Atman which cannot be known but which one essential is but forgotten yet recoverable

    Upanishads say that Self is known by him whom Self chooses

    All that we can do is to prepare ourselves for the vivifying rays of the Spiritual Sun to illuminate our mind and heart and dispel darkness

    Judge says that it may not be known for ages or may be known next instant or this moment.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    I think Kechara, the sky-walker, is a metaphor, though also literally it is one of the siddhis, going over any part of the globe–not so much in Astral body as in Mayavi-rupa–‘treads the winds above the waves…”

    It seems to be the height of “spiritual perfection” in which the Yogi has become All, his mind-soul having become freed from all trammels of Maya and merged in Spirit, the self of All. He can go into any of the seven planes of Being, know the truths therein and do whatever is required to be done, and yet remain free from attachment thereto. He can go into any of the Kama Loka states–hells, so called– and yet remain wholly free from contamination, buoyed up by his own purity.

    On earth, in whatever body and in whatever circumstances, he does his whole duty absolutely free from effects of his actions, because his will has become Spiritual Will.

    In the Bhagavata Purana somewhere it is stated that his sojourn on earth is like the Sun which traverses high above in space unaffected, though its reflection seems to be going through pools of water on earth, clean and foul.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    What does this information well collated amount to ?

    This student feels that Tao is THAT and THIS, both – in fact both are ONE : THAT or Tad in Sanskrit, is Absolute, the Unknown and Unknowable; This, meaning Jagat, manifests universe that periodically arise in it again and again following immutable Cyclic and Karmic LAW

    In short, Tao is that LAW

    Whence the tendencies inherent in svabhavat which unfolds the universe with its specific qualities unique to it ?

    It is the Law which reproduces the universe after its dissolution on the lines of the resultant of the Karma of all beings who formed the previous “wheel.”

    It may be called Dharma

    As Upanishad says that Dharma has basis in Truth (Sat) – Satye Dharma pratishtitam


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    It is the same. Atman is the one True Self, the Self of All. As the Upanishad say of it that there is nothing that is not included in it, there is nothing that is not encompassed by it.

    That Thou Art


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    As I remember :-

    Third Logos is Mahat, the Cosmic Ego. It is the synthesis of primordial seven Rays or Hierarchies.

    What is called Ahankara is the “I” principle which emanate from one of the seven Rays of Mahat Tattva.

    Such I – principles emanate like millions of sparks, as it were, from the Central Fire, or like millions of Rays of the Central Sun.

    These l principles are called in Sankhya system as Aham-tattva, or as Ahankara.

    In Theosophical paralance it is Ego.

    Ego or Aham Tattva is Higher Manas.

    In Vedanta system it is Vijnanaatma or Vijnanamaya Kosha

    It is immortal Divine Ego, unborn, deathless, throughout the mahamanvantara, the age of Brahma, at the end of which they, the Egos, are reabsorbed in Mahat, the parent luminary, which itself will merge into Absolute – Parabrahm.

    The Ahamkara, Rgo, is the reincarnating Ego, threading upon itself the quintessential experiences from each
    One of the innumerable earthly personalities which it over-shadows, and thus evolve through assimilation of these into Atma-Buddhi. When it completely merges into Atma-Buddhi, or, when Atma-Buddhi is centered in Higher Manas, the Divine Ego becomes MAHATMA , Master of Wisdom, Nirvana.

    “We” are all, every one of us, is that Ego, on pilgrimage whose end is Nirvana, complete Self-consciousness.

    In every rebirth, the Ego emanates a ray from itself, from its own essence. This ray of the Higher Manas is what we call mind. Mind is mortal Lower Ego, enveloped in Kama, passions and desires, during life on earth.

    This lower mind works through brain, it’s instrument, during earhlife. It is dependent on brain for earthly experiences, and brain is dependent on mind for its functions. Modern psychologists study the lower mind-brain function, and think that there is no mind apart from brain. They know nothing of the Higher psychic faculties and functions of lower mind, nor the true nature of mind, and much less about Higher Manasic Ego, which is independent of its earthly reflection and the brain sunstance, passions and desires.

    Higher Ego, standing on high, unafffected, tries to influence its earthly reflection, and those prompting from on high is called Conscience.

    Progression or regression, happiness or sorrow, death or immortality of the earthly mortal man depends on whether he lives and acts in conformity with his divine parent or otherwise, and thus makes Karma, and cause future rebirths in good and evil wombs.

    Important point to remember is that it is from Aham Tattva–pervaded as it is by the three qualities of Sattca, Rajas and Tomas—that subtle elements (called Tanmaatras), gross elements, five faculties of sensation (Jnanendriyas) and five faculties or organs of action (Karmendriyas) and Mind are evolved at every rebirth.

    So we have eleven senses, mind being the king, Raja of the senses.

    The mystery is, as HPB points out in the Key, Manas is both the Principle and an Entity. It is the thinking principle as well as the Thinker, the Soul.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    so, that explains why our world today is riven with so much heartless competition, conflict, wars, and also underscores the importance of diffusion of Theosophical influence. She says somewhere (probably Key) that brutality and selfishness that rages in mankind at this stage of its evolution is abnormal. Every advancement that is made in science is productive of far more evil than good, as long as the Manasic consciousness is held captive by the animal mind.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Sorry, many typos in my previous post. please bear with me.

    It is not “antitype” but “Ante-type”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel, you wondered :

    What are forms, really, in the Ideal world?

    where do all these form come in again, please?

    All that can be said is that even the exalted Ones who know the Truth cannot make it intelligible to us. All that they can do is to help our mental consciousness to rise higher to the Archetypes by analogies from things relating to our mundane existence.

    “In every age there have been Sages who had mastered absolute and yet could teach but relative truths.” (H.P.B.)

    Resorting to analogy of an edifice, then, we can ask, how did this edifice arise ?

    The idea first arose in the mind of the Architect. He conceived it in his mind. It was not yet form, but only an idea, or, an ideal form conceived in the mental consciousness.

    The next step in the chain of causes set in motion towards realising the idea in concrete form is, translation of the mental idea into a blue print of the edifice, containing every detail of what is to be.

    The blue print may be sad to be the “Form” of Plato. It seems to be analogous to Archetype–the prototypal model of the edifice to be.

    Then come the various classes of specialised builders who work on the prototype and give it concrete shape.

    In Platonic language the visible edifice is Sensible, and “Forms” are intelligible. The former are mutable, the latter immutable–true existence.This s Eternal Paradigm.

    All that is formed after it, on that eternal model,is a Generated paradigm, necessarily imperfect and subject to time and change.

    Quoting Thomas Taylor, from his excellent introduction to Permenides :

    “All corporeal natures are continually changed, hence they are neither true, nor have a true existence….they are not the first forms; for whatever ranks as first is perfect and entire; since the whole reason of every nature is established in that which is first. There are therefore certain forms above these, perfect, primary, and entire, and which are nor indigent of a subject.”

    There is nothing in the manifested universe, visible and invisible, whose Eternal Paradigm, or Archetype, does not exist in the superior divine world, beyond time and space, entire and perfect. That alone is Truth.

    On p. 200 0f SD, vol. I, the diagram of the emanation of the Planetary chain illustrates this truth very well. The three highest of the seven planes are the “Divine formless world of Spirit” In this are the Ideas of Plato.

    On the third plane comes the world of First Forms – the Archetypal World. Of this, it is said in the foot note : “The world ‘ Archetype’ must not be taken here in the sense that Platonists gave to it, ie., the world as it existed in the Mind of the Deity; but in that of a world made as a first model, TO BE FOLLOWED AND IMPROVED UPON BY THE WORLDS WHICH SUCCEED IT PHYSICALLY–THOUGH DETERIORATING IN PURITY.”

    The perfect “Forms” in Eternity is the model which is realised in manifested forms, first as Asrtral antitypes, and then as physical Types, each downward step is ascension of physical evolution and descent of sprit into matter.

    When the turning point comes, wen Spirit begins to evolution on ascending scale the forms are made more and more perfect, to finally culminating in the original Archetype but higher and more perfect than the latter.

    A reflection on the above doctrine of emanations may very helpful.

    The next great evolution proceeds on the perfected original model.

    This progressive cosmic evolutionary perfection is endless.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel Axentiev
    June 15, 2017 at 3:48 pm #5838
    Ram, could you please explain what is the source of Eternal Verities (on which higher dialectics is based)?

    As far as I understand Plato, Eternal Verity, or Truth, is that which is self-existing, which always IS, the Real Being, without generation, subsists by itself. It is apprehended by intelligence in conjunction with Reason (Theosophically, it means, it is apprehended by Buddhi-Manas)

    That which is generated is subject to change, and is non-eternal, in a state of corruption, and is perceived by “opinion” in conjunction with “irrational sense” (In theosophical parlance, by Kama-Manas, for Kama is irrational Soul)

    Generated universe is “sensible,” is “generated paradigm, and the Real Being is “Intelligible.”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel, you will please pardon me for delayed response. Am preoccupied with many other things. I will come back to your post as soon as possible.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel Axentiev
    June 18, 2017 at 3:41 am #5851

    The query raised is :

    “And here again I see the alternate use of the terms spirit and rational soul.
    Which begs the question: how much rational is the spirit of man, and what does this actually imply? As for the latter, I suppose, surely, not the equivalence of mere verbal philosophizing with spirit, or the Higher Nature of man. To put it differently, the spirit – though rational – does not think in words.”

    Perhaps it will be helpful to translate the terms Plato uses into their equivalent Theosophical terms.

    It is clarified in the Key to Theosophy (p. 115) that Plato calls Rational Soul that which we call “Buddhi,” adding to it the adjective of “spiritual,” and that that which we call Reincarnating Ego, or Higher Manas, he calls Spirit or Nous. In Theosophical usage Spirit is no Manas but Atma.

    If we keep in mind the meaning of the terms used in Plato’s dialogues and Theosophy, it will be helpful.

    What is the kind of “thinking” of rational Soul ? is the question.

    If the question is reformulated, in Theosophical equivalent, it would be “What is the kind of “thinking” of Higher Manas ?

    As rightly said, it is not thinking as we know thought and thinking but something very unknown to us.

    It is said in the Key (p. 184) : “In its very essence it is THOUGHT, and is, therefore, called in its plurality Manasa Putra, “the Sons of the (Universal ) mind.”

    There is an excellent article by Mr. Judge on “The Language of the Ego.” It will give us some idea. He teaches we have to learn that language. It is always represented to our lower mind– if purified — as colour, sound, picture, symbol, allegory, etc. which we must learn to interpret–if sufficiently purified. Everyone receives them in dreams but we lose it because we have not attuned our heart and mind to the Divine Ego.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Peter
    June 16, 2017 at 9:28 am #5842

    Hello Peter,
    Pardon me for the long delay in responding to your above post. I was preoccupied with other things. I am glad that you got the drift of what I was trying to convey after rereading it.

    What you are saying of “discursive” thought, now I understand as ‘Dialectic,” which Taylor explains.

    Discursive thought you say is reason in which sense perception does not come into play but higher reason tending to the Intelligible. You have cited a passage from Plotinus to make it clear, closing part of which I have reproduced below :

    ‘So, when one tries to get at what each thing is in itself by the exercise of dialectic, relying on reason [dianoia] without any aid of the senses, and refuses to give up until one has grasped by pure thought [noesis] what the good is in itself, one is at the summit of the intellectual realm, as the man who looked at the sun was of the visual realm.” (532 A)

    “Exercise of dialectic, relying on reason (dianoia) with out the aid of the senses”

    It is not different from what Taylor said of dialectic.

    My confusion arose when you used the word Discursive thought, because, going by the meaning given to it in English dictionaries, it seems to be way off the kind of reasoning that comes into play in dlalectic. But your citation from Plotinus clears the confusion.

    As I understand (I wish to be corrected if I am wrong) the sort of reasoning dialectic uses is essentially and fundamentally based on an Eternal Verity as the basic premises, and also, that which is to be proved through two-fold reasoning : One, in support of the proposition, and the other in opposition to it, in order to demonstrate the validity of the first with greater vigour, by showing the untenability of the latter.

    Lower dialectic, as he calls it, though based on reason, inasmuch as it starts with hypothesis, always tend to Opinion ; it is the kind of logic Aristotle uses (and modern science, also) ; whereas, the higher dialectic, begins with premises of Primary sciences in the investigation of causes, leading to illumination.

    Proclus says that dialectic reasoning has three progressive energies, or three ascending steps, leading to illumination.

    It is very interesting. We can discuss that later.

    I don’t see this any different from the the passage you cited from Plotinus and the teachings of Proclus and of Thomas Taylor.

    The subject is so profound, abstract, we cannot be sure we have perfectly grasped the whole truth.

    I will try to cite some examples from Republic and Perminides sometimes later.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Thanks Peter for the clarification. I see that we both are saying the same thing but differing in the way we are putting across our understanding as regards what you call dionia and Noetic thought. Confusion is caused by the use of the word Discursive by you.

    However, I have some misgivings about equating discursive thought or dionia with Dialectic of Plato, unless you give your own meaning to the word Discursive apart from the one given in standard English dictionaries. About the latter I have already said in my last post, needing no repetition. It is reasoning in which Intuition or Noetic element does not participate.

    You said :

    “Here, discursive thought means uncovering the truth of something or coming to a conclusion through the use of reasoning. When applied to philosophy it is sometimes called ‘the dialectic’.”

    I am afraid you will have to revisit this opinion in the light of what Taylor calls Higher or superior dialectic. This has already been stated in my last post. No need to repeat.

    Proclus, Plotinus use Higher dialectic and not vulgar dialectic.

    For instance, take any proposition of Proclus in that beautiful work “Elements of Theology.” Every one of them without exception is based on an Eteral Verity and proceeds with demonstration of it with Higher dialectic reasoning.

    For example :

    “All multiples participates in a certain respect of the ONE”

    Here basic premises is a self-evident universal axiom–the ONE as the ultimate Reality. He then goes on to show how absurdities and impossibilities follow if it were otherwise.

    In vulgar dialectic, which I bracket with Dionia or discursive thought, proceeds with hypothesis which is a conceptual construct of the lower mind activity, not based on eternal verity. Taylor shows that that kind of reasoning leads not to Divine reason but to “opinion, ” leading one away from Truth. That is the way of our modern science.

    I don’t think you have any dispute with the above. Confusion seems to be in the use of terms and the way of putting across our ideas.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Excellent passage from Isis. Thanks Kirk.

    One of the chief objects of the Theosophical Movement is revival of Western Occultism, which disappeared with the fall of the Mysteries coincident with the end of Neo-platonism. Hypatia was the last of the great Platonic Initiate after whose assassination by the worthy Fathers of the Church, the Sun of Wisdom went down the horizon of Western thought. But it is sure to rise again through the diffusion of the Theosophical Philosophy. America has a crucial role in this revival. The great Founders of the American Republic, who were all Masons, laid the foundation of freedom, democracy and rule of law–conditions necessary for reception by free minds of seeds of Wisdom. It is in America that Theosophy flourishes as no where else, as American mind is free from dogmatic religious beliefs and customs, and open to truth. Says W.Q.J. :

    “Now, this is, as I said, an era. I called it that of Western Occultism, but you may give it any name you like. But it is Western. The symbol is the well-intended American Republic, which was seen by Tom Paine before hand as a “new era in the affairs of the world.” It was meant to be, as nearly as possible, a brotherhood of nations, and that it the drift of the Declaration and Constitution. The T.S. is meant to be the same, but has for many years been in a state of friction. It has now, if possible, to come out of that. It cannot be a brotherhood unless each, or some, of its units become a brother in truth. And BROTHER was the name given in 1875 to the Masters. Hence you and I and all of us must cultivate [brotherhood]. we must forgive our enemies and those who assail us, for only thus can the great brothers help by working through us. there seems to be a great deal to forgive, but it is easily done, inasmuch as in fifty years we’ll all be gone and forgot.” (Letters That Have Helped Me, p. 95-96)

    It is not so much study of complex Sanskrit scriptures of ancient India–important though it is–as study of Plato, Pythagoras, Neo-Platonists and Gnsotics, which seem to suit the best the western genius in rediscovering her ancient spiritual roots.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    It is true, Pavel. Raja Yoga is far more rigorous in observations free from errors of bias and other defects of mind and heart than modern science, one difference being the latter looks outward, whereas the former searches within. At some level both meet and are complementary to each other.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    “On the material and scientific side of occultism, the use of the inner hidden powers of our nature, if this principle of desire be not strong the master power of imagination cannot do its work, because though it makes a mold or matrix the will cannot act unless it is moved, directed, and kept up to pitch by desire.”

    This is the reason why science as now known and practiced cannot make progress in investigating hidden forces of nature unless it blinds itself with metaphysics of old Occult Science. Scientist has to become a Raja Yogi.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel,

    I see no way science as we have today, founded on empiricism and inductive method, can ever make significant progress in unveiling the mystery of being.

    It is admirably suited to ascertain the laws of physical phenomena that falls within the cognitive range of the five senses and the mind, by observation, gathering, collating facts, and arrive at generalization through hypotheses, further observation and experimentation.

    But empiricism — meaning admitting only that which can be experienced by the senses and rational analysis–cannot unveil deeper realms of mind and spirit, because they transcend the limitation of senses and mind.

    Such inductive method, valid as it is within the limited circle of physical world, cannot transcend it. “Objective reality” with which science concerns itself is the veil which conceals the niumenal essmce of things. That veil is the senses and the mind.

    To apprehend Reality one has to, with the awakened Will — the power of the Spirit — has to paralyze independent involuntary actions of senses, brain and mind, free the Soul, the Perceiver, from their influence, and direct the Soul-gaze in the state of Samadhi to apprehend the true essence or soul of things.

    Without such conscious deliberate separation or isolation of the Soul from the turbulence of lower nature no true knowledge can ever be reached.

    First acion Of Occult science is “Mistrust thy senses, they are false.”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Peter
    May 19, 2017 at 5:51 pm #5678

    “In essence Transpersonal Psychology seeks to integrate non-scientific spiritual insights with observations and models associated with the rigorous methodological approach of psychological science.”

    That is a great advance made towards open mindedness and admission of reality of the potentialities of higher consciousness of man, and a willingness to investigate “transpersonal” psychological phenomena with scientific method, so far as the former are amenable to empirical analysis.

    I suppose it can be said that this is the limit of scientific method, and beyond that science has to step beyond empiricism enter into metaphysics, and adopt ontological principles, and also adopt science, philosophy and ethical practices of Yoga (method of Patanjali or its equivalent in Buddhism) for development of psychic and spiritual senses.

    It is inevitable. Both psychology and quantum field physics have already landed in the Occult world. Both are mutually complementary.

    There lies a great danger. We are warned by Teachers that unless Higher Manasic rules and guides the pychic, the latter will lead to worst results.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Kirk,

    HPB would find the world of today, far worse than what it was during her time– in terms of social injustice and inequity, destruction of environment, poisoning of oceans, soil, genetic modification of life sustaining food grains and vegetable life, lethal weapons of mass destruction, and absolutely no-holds-barred pursuit of greed and amassing of wealth by the few, benefiting what she called the “upper ten” of society, but crushing out the helpless masses of poorer sections in millions. I see this happening in India, a heart-rending awful social injustice.

    She said in Theosophy – Rare Perspectives :

    “the ‘happiness’ you speak of will not come as long as moral progress slumbers in inactivity, paralyzed by the ferocious egotism of everybody, the rich as well as the poor.”

    Gandhi shows how wise Sages of ancient India cared and worked only for moral and spiritual progress, relegating material progress to its legitimate domain to be subservient to Dharma–the moral law.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pierre Wouters
    May 19, 2017 at 2:56 am #5667

    ” To the Occultist, material advancement is not of the quality of light, and he finds no proof of progress in merely mechanical contrivances that give comfort to a few of the human family while the many are in misery.”

    Lethal effects–moral, social and environmental–of progress of soulless science in service of all-material civilization, as ours, is brought out clearly by HPB in her article, “Death of Art and Beauty,” (HPB article vol I, p. 148), and “Theosophy : Some Rare Perspectives,” p. 19-22

    it is worth studying these. Such is the views of Mahatmas.

    I was struck by the convergence of the views of Gandhi with HPB’s on the question of civilization (Ganhi’s 1908 work, “Hind Swaraj)

    It is so dehumanizing that VOS says, “Even Ignorance is better than head-learning with no soul-wisdom to illuminate and guide it.”

    HPB Article vol. III, (p. 314) on “Progress and Culture” :

    “But what are really culture and civilization ?…….Real culture is spiritual. It proceeds from within outwards, and unless a person is naturally noble-minded and strives to progress on the spiritual before he does so on the physical or the outward plane, such culture and civilization will be no better than whitened sepulchres full of dead men’s bones and decay.”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Kirk Marzulo
    May 17, 2017 at 8:52 pm #5652

    I cannot agree with Kirk the more when he said :

    “the vast majority of “scientific” experimentation and testing being conducted and published today does not concern itself the underlying intent or moral implications of the work which as the voice tells us, is the essence of both true self-knowledge and self-mastery.
    “Self knowledge is of loving deeds, the child.” -V.O.S.”

    No doubt modern science has made astounding progress in conquest of outer space but being amoral, unspiritual, lower-manasic-centric, its discoveries and inventions cannot but be self-destructive to the civilization, the premonitory symptoms of which are already evident.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Barbara
    May 14, 2017 at 2:10 am #5613

    Very thoughtful and probing questions ! Not easy to answer. Let me make an attempt :
    1. Does it mean what we perceive has no real existence and it is only in our imagination?

    Answer is YES, undoubtedly, if we put trust in the collective wisdom of Sages from time without beginning. Yet this trust in not blind faith, because it also is testable by reason, experience and analogy with what we know.
    Take the case of dreams. Images, pictures, emotional experiences, like fear, anxiety, pleasure, pain, etc. are seen and experienced, and these are real to the dreamer so long as the dream lasts. But they are seen to be mere imaginings when recollected in retrospect.
    Why not the same thing be said of waking experiences ? Why not ? It is perfectly not only analogous but more than analogy–it is the same ! What proof do we have of that ? We have proofs. A number of them. Even inductive science can verify the truth of this assertion.

    proof : Hypnotic experiments clearly demonstrate the verity that, though indirectly, that thought or mind is the cause (or producer) of external phenomena. The hypnotic subject can made to see, hear, smell, touch, taste anything by merely suggesting an idea to him by the operator, though there is no objective thing out there which is experienced.

    The subject need not be in hypnotic sleep to produce this phenomenon. He may be wide awake. Item 8 of the 10 propositions of psychology states that there are certain races who are gifted with various psychological, mediumistic, seership and magical powers, which they transmit from generation to generation. We find them in India, Africa, Latin America and other indigenous people.
    One such produce external phenomena to a wide audience by mere suggestion. They formulate a clear picture in the fertile image making power of their minds the phenomena they wish the audience to see, and project it into the minds of the onlookers, and lo ! it appears before them, as real as you see any object in your normal waking life. The famous Indian rope trick performed by certain communities is an example, which has been seen and testified to by thousands of practical, sober, no-nonsense Western peoples. They make wild animals, like tigers to appear and prowl about, growling, and scare people.

    So “objective reality” is nothing but projection of the modifications of our own mind. That’s precisely is a basic proposition of Patanjali in his Yoga Sutras. Stop the modifications of the mind by perfect control, then the universe disappears for the Yogi !

    Matter of our plane is an illusion. Spirit-Substance is the basis and the source, the beginning, the middle and end of all existing things.

    Says S.D. I, p. 239 :”In strict accuracy–to avoid confusion and misconception–the term “Matter” ought to be applied to the aggregate of objects of possible perception, and “Substance” to noumena; for inasmuch as the PHENOMENA OF OUR PLANE ARE THE CREATION OF THE PERCEIVING EGO–THE MODIFICATIONS OF ITS OWN SUBJECTIVITY–all the “states of matter representing the aggregate of perceived objects” can have but relative and purely phenomenal existence for the children of our plane.”
    And–
    “The pure object apart from consciousness is unknown to us, while living on the plane of our three dimensional world; AS WE KNOW ONLY THE MENTAL STATES IT EXCITES IN THE PERCEIVING EGO.”

    The Perceiver himself is an illusion, let alone the “objects” he perceives !

    So, what then is real ?

    “From the standpoint of highest metaphysics, the whole Universe, gods included, is an illusion; but the ILLUSION OF HIM WHO IS IN HIMSELF AN ILLUSION DIFFERS ON EVERY PLANE OF CONSCIOUSNESS…”

    Modern quantum physics is coming to realize this truism that “objectivity” is inseparable from “Subjective Self,” both being one contiuum;

    Only when the Ego merges with Absolute as the culmination of its ascending progression then only will it in its Nirvanic state know THINGS AS THEY ARE, as opposed too things AS THEY SEEM.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    What then is the scientific method and how does it differ from the methods of Occult science ?


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    And can we add to this one more axiom ? :

    “Highest sees through the eyes of the lowest” in the hierarchy of beiings.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pierre Wouters
    May 14, 2017 at 3:51 pm #5618

    So, our knowledge and perceptions, and conclusions we arrive at, our understanding of life and nature, even those of modern science, our values based on this, though legitimate and valid from conventional viewpoint, are, nevertheless, necessarily divorced from Reality, the latter being the WHOLE, or, as SD says, SUM TOTAL.

    This partial view which our senses and lower mind give can, therefore, only be relatively valid. It is SAMVRITTI SATYA – relative truth, which the Voice says, is “the origin of all the world’s delusions.”

    This is what, I suppose Shankara calls MITHYA, a Vedantic term, which does not mean non-existence, but means mistaken notion, like mistaking the rope for a snake. He says the whole manifested worlds is MITHYA, and SAT (Brahman) alone is SATYA.

    To me it makes perfect sense, though I am not able to realize SATYA, but I know for certainty that deep in me is THAT, and I can Know IT — PARAMARTHA.

    Interestingly, and paradoxically, Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says to the effect that he who says he knows IT does not Know IT, but he who says he does not know IT, he knows IT.

    It cannot be otherwise. Why ? – Because, you, I, are all THAT.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Does the nucleus of the cell shadow forth something in cosmos and man ? Science does not know it because it avoids ontological investigation and reasoning, and, therefore, wholly unaware of the Law of Analogy and Correspondence.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    No more than you can make one enjoy and appreciate music who has no ear for music.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Jon, your comment :

    “Every kind of vidya possible must be ultimately a mix of vidya and avidya, because no being perceives the whole truth no matter how “high” they are. And no avidya, however low, can be entirely devoid of some amount of vidya. In this sense, the two are like the polar ends of a spectrum. If we picture an endless line with ever-increasing vidya in one direction and ever-increasing avidya in the other, then it makes sense that following only/alone one or the other direction will lead ultimately nowhere (or to “darkness”). And perhaps HPB’s “reaching the absolute consciousness and blending our own with it” is what gives the ability to take a kind of “overview” of that spectrum, see both vidya and avidya at once, and not be entrapped or “mystified” by either.”

    WHICH means, then, there is no spirit without matter, nor matter without Spirit, in manifestation. Ultimate Truth must include both and yet transcend the polarity. Both good and evil, knowledge and ignorance, death and immortality are included, and transcended. This is seen in the 10th chapter of the Bhagavadgita :

    “I am endless time itself, and the preserver whose face is turned on all sides. I am all grasping death, and the birth of those who are to be……Of those things which deceive I am the dice, and splendor itself among splendid things…I am O Arjuna, the seed of all existing things, and there is not anything, whether animate or inanimate, which is without me.”

    Thou includest all things, therefore thou art all things.” (chapter 11)

    Good and Evil, Ignorance and Enlightenment, and the whole range of dualities of the manifested universe are contained in the Absolute. Nothing is left out.

    Of the One who has reached that state of transcendence of Absolute consciousness a beautiful description of the characteristic marks of them–who have surmounted the three qualities is given in the closing part of the 14th chapter.

    Such an One is not disturbed when the dissolution of the universe takes place at the end of the Maha Kalpa, and is not born again at the new creation.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Excellent comment, Peter. You have a clear conception of the intent of the Isa versus.

    Karma Kanda is indeed, in the Vedic culture, a preliminary and preparatory stage for the man of the world for his ethical development, as attending diligently to it, purifies heart and mind of the practitioner, and prepares him, after many lives, to enter the Jnana Marga.

    If Karmas are performed as prescribed in the Shastras with motive of self-benefit–either for heavenly enjoyment or earthly riches or both, the practitioner gains what he desires, but it does not lead to Vidya in the sense of Atma Jnana. Hence it is Vidya-nescience, but necessary for people who are still attached to worldly things.

    Over many lives of experience, the practitioner develops dispassion and longs for true knowledge. Even then he practices Karmas but without self-interest, Nishkama Karma. The latter exercise purifies his whole nature by working out past Karmas while making no new ones. Purification of self leads gradually to knowledge.

    A stage is reached when he entirely gives up Karmas and devotes himself entirely to Janana, leading to Mukti.

    The Isa verses seem to refer to this evolutionary progress.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Thanks Pavel and Peter. Your comments have certainly helped in better understanding the Isa verses, 9,10,11.

    Pavel, your comment copied below seems to me to reflect the intent of the Isa verses. :

    “The “avidya” that overcomes death is the non-attachment of a Zen master or a Yogi, living in the mountains free from all upadanas (?).

    This is also the avidya of an urban Buddhist and yogi, living in a modern town or village, relatively independent.

    And the vidya that helps one to achieve immortality is perhaps the inner practice, the path of the mystic, that helps us crystallize our higher potencies.

    Essentially, every tradition probably has an outer and an inner aspect.

    The outer aspect, a path of self-constraint, is “avidya.”

    The inner aspect, the internal development, techniques of meditation – these are vidya.”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    There were skeptics and sophists during Plato’s time, there are more now, perhaps, than then, and they will continue to be even as far as fifth Round. Somewhere HPB says that every Occultist there are nine sophists. It cannot be helped.

    It is also said that skeptics and charlatans are natural shield of protection for Occultists.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    I think the work Students of Theosophy have on hand, as traced by the Teachers whom they trust, is not going about convincing people, least of all the community of scholiasts and scholars, nor be looking out for approval of scholars of our aims, purposes and the philosophy, nor try to free fantasies of followers of any school.

    No doubt Theosophical doctrines are no better than will-o’-the-wisp to the wiseacres of academies. Our business is to study, try to apply what we study, and spread broadcast seminal ideas of timeless Wisdom Religion in an impersonal way, and thereby realize as much as possible the true nature of the Self, which gives rise to ever deepening conviction of Universal Brotherhood. It is their conviction that spread of this all-embracing, all-inclusive synthesis of science, religion and philosophy alone is capable of reconciling science and religion, demonstrate the essential unity of all religions, and of Universal Brotherhood, and give the civilization–gloating and wallowing in materialism, as it is–a World Ideal without which, it will putrefy, decay and die, symptoms of which are already too evident.

    Whether students of Theosophy succeed or fail is not their concern. They only collectivley do the best they can, and leave the results to the ever Just Law.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Gerry Kiffe
    April 17, 2017 at 5:40 pm #5451

    “I don’t really understand why it is important to convince academics in the first place. In the past it might have been important because the intellectual classes, as HPB used say, hold sway over intellectual life of much of mankind. I don’t believe that influence is as profound now. We have ways to communicate and create dialog with people that can circumvent this old bottleneck.”

    To try to communicate Theosophy to skeptics, and to those who do not value it, is not only useless but can be dangerous. Warns the Master not to cast the pearls before the swine lest it should………

    Said Master to HPB,

    “Be prudent, we say, prudent and wise, and above all take care what those who learn from you believe in; lest by deceiving themselves they deceive others……for such is the fate of every truth with which men are, as yet, unfamiliar…..Let rather the planetary chains and other super-and-sub-cosmic mysteries remain a dreamland for those who can neither see, nor yet believe that others can.” (SD, vol. I, p. 167)

    And HPB commented :

    “It is to be regretted that few of us have followed the wise advice; and that many a priceless pearl, many a jewel of wisdom, has been cast to an enemy unable to understand its value and who has turned round and rent us.” (ibiden)


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Hello Peter

    You have pointed out in the three verses, 9, 10, and 11 an apparent confusion. It is indeed tricky. However, there seems to be some clue to the riddle in an episode narrated in the Vishnu Purana which I had read years back, and had marked that particular reference in my copy of Isa upanishad, against verse 11. It is now coming handy. I am referring to the 6th and 7th chapters of the 6th and the last section of the Vishnu Purana. You can perhaps check it out with Wilson’s translation. It is entitled : The Episode of Khandikya Janaka and Keshidwaja. If you read these two chapters, I think, it gives a clue to the riddle of verse 11 of the Isa.

    Stated briefly and in my own (non-scholastic fashion of) rendering into English of Sanskrit verses translated in my native tongue, Kannada–which is, like other south Indian Dravidian languages are highly Sanskritized–it runs like this.

    Khandikya and Keshidwaja are first cousins, and rivals. They fought a battle in which Khandikya is defeated, and he takes refuge in a forest. Keshidwaja, though devoted to spiritual knowledge, with a view to cross over the death, engages in Karma Yoga in a spirit of renunciation of fruits of it, in order to purify his nature. His sacrifice suffers some serious defect. He seeks remedy. None knew the remedy except his rival, the exiled Khandikya Janaka.

    He meets Khandikya in the forest and seeks remedy. the remedy is given. the King completes the sacrifice after rectifying the defect.

    He goes again to the forest and asks Janaka what he would like to have as his Guru Dakshina (gift to the teacher). Janaka could have asked him to make over the kingdom to him but, instead, to the surprise of Keshidwaja, he asks Keshidwaja, who was well grounded in spiritual knowledge, to teach him that knowledge which destroys all afflictions of conditioned existence.

    Khandikya gives Janaka a description of the characteristics of Avidya which binds, and how the dirt of nescience gathered from many previous births can be washed away by the warm waters of Tattva Jnana (discrimination of principles in nature and man)

    It is through combining Karma Yoga — engaging in actions with heart joined to renunciation–which is still Avidya–with Tattva Jnana, which is Vidya, one crosses over death, first through the door of Avidya, and then attains immortaity through the door of Tattva Jnana (Vidya)

    Thus Verses 8 and 9 of chapter 7 of section 6 of Vishnu Purana seems to throw light on the perplexing verse 11 of Isavasya Upanishad.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Peter
    April 17, 2017 at 5:04 pm #5450

    Peter, can we not relate Avidya-Nesciene and Vidya-Knowledge to the two paths spoken of in the Upanishads–one leading to the region of the Moon, gaining which the Soul is compelled to return to earth life; and the other to the region of the Sun, gaining which, the Soul is not compelled to return, ie., emancipated ?

    I think, both Vidya and Avidya spoken of here in the Upanishad refers to the fist path–the path of smoke, the dark fortnight, the sun’s southern journey, and NOT to the path of Fire, the fortnight of full Moon, of the Sun’s norther journey. Because, pursuit of both viday and Avidya is said in the Upanishad to lead to blind darkness (Andah – Tamah), those devoting to Vidya alone entering into still worse kind of mental darkness (Bhuya Eva Tamah).

    To my understanding, the verse applies to two kinds of intellectual or scholastic pursuits. One, denominated Avidya, not only to ritualistic worship devoid of spiritual knowledge, but to all kinds of Learning which are rooted in Rajasic and Tamasic qualities. Under this head all our modern scientific research and knowledge and other branches of knowledge our universities pursue are included. No doubt they lead to mental darkness–not from worldly perspective but in the view of the spiritually illuminated Sage.

    Have not Master said that since science has nothing to do with morality, philanthropy, altruism, it can make no claim upon Them, unless it blends itself with metaphysics ? Modern science is amoral and serves and promotes Avidya.

    Reg Vidya, it should relate not only to magical knowledge of powers of nature and their control (obtaining Siddhis) but to even mere intellectual study of Theosophy without applying it for self-transformation through renunciation of self while engaged in action. Of the latter kind there are many among students of Theosophy.

    The danger that lurks in mere intellectual and psychic development without blossoming of Higher Manasic and Buddhic faculties is warned against by the great Gurus. Judge’s warning that intellect alone leads us all to hell, is not paid much attention to by students. History of the TM has illustrations of such failures.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Jon Fergus
    April 17, 2017 at 4:30 pm #5444

    Jon has made an important point. Blind belief only blinds us the more.

    “To someone who is interested in knowing, the claims of truth on any subject by any one don’t matter at all unless one can verify that truth for oneself.”

    Precisely. Masters did not give out some of the deepest mysteries of man and the universe hitherto unknown to the profane world, not for us to blindly believe in. They want us to investigate and ascertain the truths They have given by our own self-induced, self-devised ways and means. And those means are also provided by Them. Each student has only to thoroughly grasp the basic propositions of Theosophy and apply them in every direction, and see how they throw brilliant light on mysteries of life, which, otherwise, are incomprehensible, which neither existing religions nor modern science can solve.

    There is a vast difference between belief on blind faith and belief based on knowledge. The latter is based on self-evident, self-validating universal axioms, and which turns into actual experiential knowledge if one works earnestly on them along the lines traced out by the great Gurus. By this discriminative knowledge one can discern the true from the false, the genuine Teachers from the pretenders, the true Teachings from the counterfeit.

    Masters can do no more than give out a part of Their knowledge to the world with the hope that at least some will benefit by it. They can do no more. Says HPB in her article “What is Truth” :

    “In every age there have been Sages who had mastered the absolute and yet could teach but relative truths. For none yet, born of mortal woman in our race, has, or could have given out, the whole and the final truth to another man, FOR EVERY ONE HAS TO FIND THAT (TO HIM) FINAL KNOWLEDGE IN HIMSELF.” (caps mine)


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Looks like these are cast in the mould of Seventh Day Adventists who are perpetually in expectation of Armageddon, and live on the roof of their houses to escape floods !


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Precisely.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    What is “nescience” here mean, as contrasted with “knowledge” ?

    Gave a thought to the question.

    All learning which does not lead to knowledge of Self–ultimate Reality– should be nescience ? If so, all our academic learning, including science, come under the head nescience. It is “Avidya” in the original text. It does indeed lead to spiritual darkness, does not reach down to and affect the Inner Man, though develops and sharpens the Lower Mind.

    Perhaps, “Knowledge,” “Vidya” in the original, appears to be spiritual knowledge as an intellectual acquisition only. The latter seems to be denominated as “the Eye Doctrine,” or “the Dharma of the Eye.” If one is devoted to intellectual study of Theosophy only, as a mere academic exercise, though apparently good in itself, we are warned,leads to greater darkness, if is not illuminated by the Heart-Light–Buddhi–“the Dharma of the Heart.”

    The Voice says that the first prate, “Behold, I know,” and the last, “those who in humbleness have garnered, low confess, ‘Thus Have I Heard.'”

    The relative merits of these two are shown :

    “The Dharma of the Eye is the embodiment of the external and the non-existing,” and is “scattered to the winds by the good law.”

    “The Dharma of the Heart is the embodiment of the permanent of Bodhi, the Permanent and Everlasting.”

    Masters emphasize on the Heart Doctrine, and value only that.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Kirk Marzulo
    April 14, 2017 at 4:41 pm #5410

    Thanks Kirk for posting this fine piece from Lucifer.

    We made use of it in our last Saturday evening study class at the ULT, when discussing portions of the Light on the Path. To know the personality in all its complexity is indeed the most difficult task. Till it is known and mastered the mystery of Self as the All Self remains a closed book to us. The “Circle of Pass not,” the “Dhyani Pasa” which circumscribes this world (read, personality) and prevents access to the World of Reality, the absoluteness of infinity, (True Self) is well nigh impassable, though not impossible. (SD, I, p. 130, 131) Difficulty lies in the illusion thrown up by personality–the I and the mine with its ten thousand snares. Says the Light on the Path :

    “Not until the bonds of personality are loosened can that profound mystery of self begins to be seen. Not till you stand aside from it will it in any way reveal itself to your understanding. Then, not till then, can you grasp and guide it. Then, not till then, can you use all its powers, and devote them to a worthy cause.” (p. 24)

    To know the personality one has to light the lamp of the Heart Light — Buddhi — which alone can lead the man to his final goal.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    As I understand it, seeing oneself in all, and all in One Self, not only in spiritual exaltation, a condition not easily obtainable by all, but even at our level sensing it with the Eye of higher Reason and intuitive conviction.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    The first object of the TM, viz., universal Brotherhood, was sought to be proved to the world that it is a fact, not an utopia, on two fronts. One metaphysical and the second, comparative study of word religions. The first was to demonstrate that the universe and all beings are formed of one indivisible, indestructible universal essence; man and universe have common origin, evolving under one Law, tending towards one common end; and, therefore, essentially all are bound up indissolubly with all, such that action of one affects all, for good or ill, and to what extent each self-conscious unit is responsible for the well-being, and progress on the right lines, of the collective life.

    IF humanity is formed of one universal essence, it is logical that all the great world religions, philosophies and sciences are the many expressions of one universal Truth, proof of which is to be found in the pursuit of the second object of the TM.

    Both these approaches are extensively elaborated and profusely demonstrated in Isis Unveiled and the S.D. so one comes out of that study deeply convinced of the fact of Universal Brotherhood, and transformed.

    Study of the UB is inseparable from the study of Karma and Reincarnation–especially, of the profound law of Distributive Karma. It is so potent. One sees and feels to what extent each of us is our brother’s keeper. One who comes out of the study cannot bring himself to slide back into the irresponsible ways of the world. Such is the power of Theosophy.

    Reg the third object, as far as I understand, the Teachers never expected us to indulge in any experimentation by trying to develop psychic powers, but warned against it. Unexplained laws of nature were to be studied philosophically and their basis in immutable laws was to be understood, and widely disseminated to counter superstition and skepticism. The ten propositions of Oriental psychology throw brilliant light on many a psychological and spiritual phenomena, which otherwise are inexplicable. Isis, in this respect is a great educator. BPW used to say that Isis is a much neglected study.

    So we can see that it is not easy to demonstrate the fact of UB to the world which gives little attention to serious side of life.
    Judge said that it is realizable in the degree one evolves one’s consciousness to higher states.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    I suppose we can take up each one of the authors mentioned, draw up a gist of their thoughts and researches, and study them in the light of Theosophy. That has to be a separate link dedicated for the puroose of comparitive mythology.

    Sorry, this is a digresaion from our main focus


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    When the monthly magazine, Theosophy, was published by LA ULT, a wide survey of emerging ideas in various fields was done, and excellent comments were made in the section, titled, On the Liok Out.

    It was very edifying.

    I wish LA revived the magazine


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    You may not rceive feedback but posts you and others send are indeed read and aprreciated. I do, at any rate, though I may not post comments


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    O, James, by cw I did not mean Leadbeater. I meant collected writings.

    Between head learning (intellect alone) and heart doctrine, the first will mislead us if not guided and ruled by the second. This is of utmost importance. “Even ignorance is better than head-learning with no soul-wisdom to illuminate and guide it.” How intellect alone takes us all to hell need no elaborate demonstration. Our all-material civilization is itself a standing example. In the theosophical life, especially in the case of one who is making progress in inner life, intellectual development at the expense of the Heart Light proves to be a disastrous outcome. History of the TM has telling illustrations of it.

    What “hell” it leads to is something one has to learn.

    Isavasya upanishad also warns against it. Loosely translated : “He enters into darkness who remains ignorant. Still greater darkness enters he who is intent on mere learning (vidya)” ie., mere intellectual study.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    HPB has suggested a set of definite terms, both in English and Sanskrit in the Key. She has already given the English equivalents in it. The suggestion is that there will be least confusion if we employ those terms.

    Of course, it is wise for English speaking people to evolve their own terms as she advised for Sanskrit terms which are not covered in the Key. She has given Greek, Egyptian, Hebrew terms in SD and the Key. Evolving English terms or terms in European tongues, is a slow process. What is perhaps needed, to avoid confusion, is first to establish and become familiar with standard terms she has already done, principally in the Key. If that is held as the common basis with which all are familiar, then new terms may be coined and used with least confusion.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    SD was written to arouse the dormant Buddhic faculty in students. Anyone taking the position of authority, and pose as interpreter, will be subversive of that noble end, and disservice to the Great Teachers and Guides, besides laying the foundation for priestly authority, which will imperceptibly creep in, and turning the TS into a popery, against which HPPB warned.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Problem is with the self-styled interpreters of Masters’ Theosophy. A brood of them popped up with their own versions, making confusion worse confounded, after the Founders were gone, even going to the extent of saying S.D. is an evolving body of knowledge, to be improved upon !

    The only true authority is each individual student himself or herself, and the only true interpreter and guide is his or her Higher Self.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    True. The Unity of Self comes strongly in SD study and makes powerful impression on the mind.

    The three fundamental propositions on which hinges the whole of Theosophy when constantly dwelt upon gives that unitary vision.

    Precosmic Ideation, says the first fundamental, is the source of all consciousness and guiding intelligence in the vast scheme cosmic evolution; and pre-cosmic root Substance in its various degrees of differentiations provide the basis (upadhi) for the Precosmic Ideation (Purusha) to inhere and exhibit or manifest various degrees of consciousness and power; and self-consciousness through a certain complexity of differentiated substance.

    What is not conscious, where indeed is there no consciousness ? All, all is living, vibrating life, consciousness, Spirit. I am in all and all are in me.

    Purusha the Spirit and Substance or Prakriti being two aspects of One, there is nothing else but ONE, subject – object being one continuum I see and feel one with the all.

    SD study is not merely intellectual but has a powerful Heart element in it which vibrates in unison with the Voice of the Silence. The two cannot be separated.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Yet, in all these conflicts and confusions a few, very few, who attend to the Heart Doctirne, remain loyal to the Cause and to the lines of work traced out by the Masters. It is in this sishta (morally fit)which survive the crash of organizations that lie the promise of regeneration and growth along the right lines.

    “Great sifter is the name of the Heart Dictrine, Disciple.”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    “Realization comes from dwelling upon the thing to be realized.” — Judge

    The process is slow but sure and steady.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    That is exercise of mental charity


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Lower self, therefore, is symbolized as Ass. When you push it, it pushes
    against you with equal force.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Peter,

    One more term is often used in Hindu scriptures. It is KEVALAM.

    In Patanjali Yoga Sutras this term
    appears. The last (4th) chapter, we know, is called Kaivalya paada.

    The term Kevala or Kaivalya is translated by Mr Judge as Isolation. Isolation of the soul.

    Literal meaning of it is indeed that as well as the philosophical one.

    Lexigographc meanings given are : Peculiar, exclusive, uncommon, alone, mere, sole, only, isolated, whole, entire, absolute, perfect, bare, uncovered, pure, simple, unmingled, unattached (by anything else).

    Kevali is one who has attained
    to the state of perfection the term represents. Jain Arhats are referred
    to as Kevalis. The term Is used
    much in Jain philosophy and mysticism.

    Isolation of the Soul–Kaivalya–virtually means Mukti or Nirvana or Nih-aavarana (Niraavarana)

    “When the six are slain and at the Master’s feet are laid, then is the pupil merged into the one, becomes that one, and lives therein.” (Voice — not verbatim but as remembered) This should be Kaivalya.

    It is used in Bhagavadgita. Not able to find it right now.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    It is only deep study of the Esoteric Philosophy which gives us an intuitive glimpse of inseparableness of earthly man from Heavenly Man, the Sephiroth, and his Self to be ultimately Parabrahm, develops in the student a strong sense of non-separateness and a devotion to humanity above all caste, creedal and racial distinctions, even though he lives with the notion of separateness in practical everyday life. It also develops in the student the virtue of charity, unrevengefulness, forgiveness, and a certain degree of dispassion.

    It is a progressive inner evolution from individuality to Unity of SELF, from Vyashti to Samashti, as they say in Vedanta.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    “Self-identifying attachment for wife, children, and household” is very natural for all of us, though we study Theosophy. There are various degrees of such self-identifying attachment–from the grossest kind, of such feeling of possessiveness as my wife, my child, as if we own them, to a certain degree of dispassion born of deep philosophic study and reflection that we are all souls, not bodies, come together in this life by past affinities to workout our respective Karmic destiny. Yet, in the latter case there will be certain attachment, though not of the former kind. In the life of Mr.Judge–though a Sage that he was–it is said that he and his wife felt a deep sense of loss of the child they had lost by death. Loss of a loved one has a certain personal element in it, and we cannot be free from it altogether–unless we become unfeeling monsters, and that we cannot, being human.

    The former kind–the selfish feeling of possessiveness–born of ignorance, is problematic. Many a family problem of interrelationships stem from this gross kind of self-identifying attachment.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Attachment also means affinity and its opposite aversion or antipathy. As Pierre says attachment is a powerful binding force that imprisons the Perceiver with the objects of sense–physical. Astral and Spiritual– from the grossest level to subtler levels upto the very door step of Nirvana.

    If we have aversion for anything or anybody or any circumstance, then we become attached to the very same thing we detest. As Judge says, aversion is attachment by opposite. As the Light on the Path says, to the effect, the soiled garment you shrink from may have been yours yesterday or may be yours tomorrow, and that the more you run away from it, will it be thrown around your shoulders the more closely, till you realize that you the truth that Self is All, good and bad alike. The sin and the shame of the world is the sin and shame of every one of us. The vices we see around us in our fellowmen are present as seeds right in us, requiring only the right kind of conditions to sprout and show forth.

    Attachment and aversion is the same thing as Bias. Asavas, as they call it in Pali.

    To live in the world without attachment or aversion for anythiing is difficult. But we may try. To try, and keep on trying, is our duty


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    It is in self-forgetfulness in the true service of humanity that entrance into Inner life is possible–the only right royal road. HPB warns that any other motive at entrance will either be futile or run the risk of being “blasted at the threshold.” (HPB’s 5 Messages).


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    However much Absolute is beyond the grasp of our intellect we can never cease thinking of IT, speculating on IT, and aspiring to IT.

    Why? Because We are THAT. “THAT thou art.”

    Our lower mind is utterly unable to comprehend IT. Yet we somehow understand it, not so much by our brain mind, as by higher our consciousness — Intuition.

    S.D. says that while our normal mundane consciousness cannot comprehend IT, the highest spiritual faculties, when we have developed and perfected our spiritual nature, senses it and feels it. That spiritual feeling when we were yet gods in heaven, before our descent into matter, is not dead but alive deep in our psyche, though obscured.

    That is why, perhaps, Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says :

    If one says he knows IT he knows it not; if one says he knows IT not he knows IT.” A statement pregnant with meaning.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    And very tellingly in the Chandogya Upanishad 4 / 17 / 1 to 10, if we but read it with an eye to symbolism.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    And what you say, Pavel, is well illustrated in the allegory of the Book of Job — a book par excellence on the trials of Initiation.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Excellent yon. Well said, very helpful. Thanks.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Yes. It makes perfect sense. Thus even to our mundane everyday mind the illusion of the senses may be demonstrated.

    “Mistrust thy senses; they are false.” (Voice_


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Kristan

    I see a certain error in your metaphysical reasoning. You said :

    “Closing this, in my opinion, when we consider the Great Cyclic Law of Necessity, the Omnipresence of Existence, and Eternal Succession as Fundamental grounds for logic, how on earth can illusion be introduced when every atom (spiritual, psychic, physical) is 100% embedded with Eternal Law, and Exists “within” Omnipresence.”

    Existence
    cyclic law of endless successions of manifestations and non-manifestations
    every Atom (by this in theosophy is meant Monad) in its spiritual, psychic and physical manifestations

    These you say as “embedded” with Eternal Law and Exist within Ominipresence.

    Now the point is “Existence” implies limitation, however great it may be in our conception.
    Eternity itself is not sempiternity but a period of time so long in duration that even though it may look to us as endless, it has still a beginning and an ending.

    Therefore “Eternal Existence” is relatively so, but must cease at some point and go into non-existence. And existence is possible only when there is duality of Subject-object, or Spirit – Matter, the two in one and one appearing as two opposites.

    Now this duality of spirit and matter, by which Existence is possible, itself is resolvable into Unity or One which is Absolute.
    This Absolute is neither spirit nor matter, but No-spirit, Non-Matter, NO-Thing, and THAT alone unthinkable and Unknowable is Reality. The idea of SPACE is an aid to understanding

    Whether there are universes or not SPACE IS, and THAT is unrelated to the universes which come and go according to cyclic Law or law of cause and effect, but IT is unrelated to all that, because IT is beyond all causation, and beyond all duality, the Great UNCONSCIOUS or ABSOLUTE CONSCIOUSNESS.

    THAT alone is Reality, and all else are ever moving, ever shifting shadows having no existence apart from, or outside of, Egoic perceptive faculty, which itself arises from dependent origination. That does not mean universe is not real to the perceiving Ego. It is real to it. But it will discover that what it thought was real was actually not so, when it wakes to a state of higher consciousness.

    This demonstrable even to our everyday mundane waking life in its own limited way.

    I think reflection on the First fundamental perception should make it clear.

    Let us not forget that there are two ONES : Manifested ONE, and Unmanifested Absolute ONE, the former being the symbol of the latter.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Going through the discussions on Illusion and Reality, I find all are saying more or less the same thing – Garry, Kristan, Pavel, Peter, Samantha ….It is indeed commendable that students have such a good grasp of the philosophy. HPB abd WQJ would rejoice !


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Well said. It is true service of humanity without distinctions of caste, creed or colour. Altruism is the integral part of Self-development.

    “Theosophy is essentially unsectarian, and work for it forms entrance to the inner life. But, none can enter there save the man himself in the highest and truest spirit of Brotherhood, and any other attempt at entrance will either be futile or he will lie blasted at the threshold.” (HPB”s Second Message)


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Kristen, there is another study on this subject which Nagarjuna teaches which, I suppose, illustrates the extreme subtlety of the subject of reality and illusion.

    His line of reasoning is somewhat like this :

    Having discovered that the water of a mirage is not water, will it not be silly on our part to think that previously existent water now does not exist ?

    Water was never existent before we discovered what we thought we saw was water. We just superimposed the idea of water on something that was not at all water.

    The absence of the appearance of phenomena to such a mind does not mean that what formerly was actually existent now has been destroyed.

    The reality is later ascertained
    Of what was formerly imputed by ignorance.
    When a thing is not found,
    How can there be a non-thing ?

    Dakshinamurthy hymns and Mansollasa, attributed to Shankara speak of the very same subject along the same line of reasoning.

    Though we do not realize the truth experientially we still feel that indescribable intuitive feeling that wells up in us to silently whisper in our consciousness IT IS TRUE.

    Experiential verification of the nature of Illusion and Reality has to be preceded, as a necessary pre-requisite, that we first gain the knowledge of it through study, reflection, reason, intuition, ending in deep conviction. Our changed world view and values and attitudes arising out of this conviction sharpen spiritual discrimination (Buddhi) and develops strong dispassion (Vairagya) It leads after many lives of search and sacrifice to MUMUKSHVATTAM — intense desire for liberation.

    From acquisition of this preliminary qualification to actual realization, many lives (rebirths) must pass, many tests and trials have to be gone through.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Kristen, I follow your line of thought. Maya-Illusion-Moha vis a vis Reality is something the truth of which we sense intuitively, but do not realize it experientially, nor are we able to clothe with the words what we sense interiorly to our entire satisfaction.

    But don’t you think that the illusion of the senses can be demonstrated to our mundane everyday waking consciousness by a number of our own daily experiences, without going into dizzy metaphysics ?


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Eye of Shiva is an actual physical organ in the human brain, according to the Secret Doctrine. It is the Pineal Gland.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Yes, you are right Peter. even in SD HPB comments, in her criticism of Darwin’s hypothesis of Natural Selection and survival of the fittest, that Darwin himself would have been shocked to see to what extent his theory had been perverted by his over-zealous admirers.

    Randomly acting Natural Selection–blind, purposeless, unguided–making selection and transmitting the traits to the progeny, delighted the world of science as a satisfactory explanation of origin and evolution of species, requiring nothing like God’s intervention of much hated clergy. God and creation idea happily became redundant.

    Juxtaposing the monumental absurdity of anthropomorphic God of theologian and his “creation” out of nothing, with the soulless, and equally absurd, blind, mechanical physical forces originating and evolving species, how beautifully HPB offers, in the SD, the philosophical middle ground–of hierarchy intelligent intracosmic intelligent creative forces building and guiding the universe of beings following the plan in the Universal Mind in accordance with cyclic and Karmic laws.

    Darwin’s hypothesis, rather what was made out of it, and Malthusian theory of population growth has shaped the modern western theory and practice of political economy. Adam Smith and Lord Keynes gave it the practical shape as a working model. And this has been carried to a crescendo in the globalized market economy which rules unchallenged in the world today.

    In the XVII chapter of the Bhagavadgita — Devotion by means of three kinds of Faith — it is stated that Faith of mortals proceeds from Sattva quality, and that each man is of the same nature as that ideal on which his faith is fixed.

    Our civilization has its faith still firmly fixed on the idea and a belief in soulless, mechanistic universe devoid of any mind, sense, aim or purpose.

    As a man thinks, so he becomes.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    One more important point :

    Just as only the “fit” –ie., the most spiritual element–in the personality survive, so is the case with civilizations, family races, sub-races and Root-Races. This clearly spoken of in racial evolution in SD vol. II. Egos who make up the race do not all succeed in their fitness for higher evolution in the next higher race which follows. Only those who are MORALLY FIT, called Sishta, survive and become seeds of the next higher race. The failures are swept away in the calamities that invariably occur during the transition of cycles. (SD, II 308)

    Of such great racial evolution through sifting and sorting of nations is beautifully given in SD.

    “Thus, since Vaivasvata Manu’s Humanity appeared on this Earth, there have already been four such axial disturbances ; when the old continents–save the first one–were sucked in by the oceans, and other lands appeared, and huge mountain chains arose where there had been none before. The face of the Globe was completely changed each time; the SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST nations and races was secured through timely help ; the unfit ones–the failures–were disposed of by being swept off the earth. Such sorting and shifting does not happen between sunset and sunrise, as one may think, but requires several thousands of years before the new house is set in order. ….The sub-races are subject to the same cleansing process, as also the side-branchlets (family-Races.” (II, p. 330)

    “Great sifter is the name of the Heart Doctrine, Disciple.” (Voice of the Silence.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Hello Peter, So nice to hear from you after a long long time. How are you ?

    You have raised a subject most stimulating and deeply interesting. Olcott’s point that the Law of the survival of the fittest applies to all things, from the smallest the the greatest, from planets to man, — it seems to me — is unquestionable. It is unmistakably in action in physical nature. In the SD we are shown how planets fought for supremacy, the larger swallowing up the smaller, the Sun devouring the weaker brethren of his, before the final harmonious adjustments were made by Fohat.

    Yes, it applies to man also, but to man as the terrestrial animal, ie., as personality, the physical being, ignorant of his spiritual nature. Is not this evident, in full flow, in the political economy of our civilization ? But it applies only to animal man.

    But man is not animal, though he has descended from heaven to assume the animal nature in order to tame, refine and raise up the animal.

    It seems to me that you have stated it correctly that the word “Fittest” of “Fit” has a different connotation when it comes to man in his higher human aspect. As you have said what survives the death of man is only his noblest and the most spiritual elements of his personality which become assimilated to Buddhi in Devachan. Thus, in one aspect, what survives is “fit” for assimilation with the Spirit. Whatever is “unfit” in man is his gross, material, selfish, animal propensities which are purged away in Kama Loka. They have no place in heaven. So here the ‘Fit” is in a sense the opposite of what is implied in the Darwinian notion.

    As regards Master’s statement about millions of Egos losing out in the “Race to Immortality” and perish : to my mind it refers to the the terrible calamity called “Spiritual Death,” which is the fate of those personalities which have in them not one iota of a higher thought or feeling which can cling on to the Divine Self after death of man, and hence perish entirely. It is a most profound doctrine, so important that a diffusion of the knowledge of it may save many thousands who otherwise may suffer the dire fate–of ANNIHILATION.

    FITNESS, then in the spiritual life it seems to me to have nothing in common with fitness in the competitive world of animal economy.

    Fitness for immortality is gained precisely by conscious rejection of the selfish and the personal, which are the children of Ignorance–Avidya–and enter upon the Law of our true being and higher nature, which is Sacrifice. The Fire of Spiritual Knowledge it seems burns away the dross of the separative personality so that the purified Human Soul merges with the Higher Self, and becomes the ALL.

    One more important point. In the next post.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    The other side of the story, as it seems to me is this :

    The Entities who thus grow in conscious, Manasic, life to divinity are so bound up in the tie of Brotherhood that they are compelled by the Law of Karma–whose ultimate end and purpose is emancipation of all beings–to sacrifice their divine felicitous, blissful heavenly life, exile from that higher life to incarnate on the miserable earth–the mansion of death– in order to raise up the Egos still bound to miseries of conditioned existence, as well as the Monads of the sub-human kingdoms, to higher life. This is Yajna consciously performed with full knowledge and responsibility.

    In the Transactions HPB shows the name of the Higher Ego (which we are, indeed, in reality) Aja, meaning Lamb, as well as unborn (therefore, deathless) who sacrifices himself to himself to redeem all creatures. He is a voluntary sacrificial victim, like the lamb is in exoteric rituals.

    Is not the Spiritual Ego, the Manasa Putra, though innocent of the sins of its temporary series of shadow on earth nevertheless take on the sins of the latter and suffer ? He suffers in order that the thief may be raised up to heaven–a thief difficult to tame and reform. Truly he is the Lamb. He is also the good shepherd, the leader of the herd of sheep.

    In the same way we can say, I suppose, Purusha, the universal Spirit. sacrifices itself to become all this in obedience to the Law of sacrifice out of compassion absolute that all may be saved and emancipated.

    Hence Krishna says in the 8th chapter of the Gita, “I am Adi-Yajna in this body.”

    The Wondrous Being, Mahadeva, the Initiator, the BEING, the MAHA GURU, though emancipated and gone on to the unknown (to us) fields of Absolute Life, refused to go on, but sacrifices himself, and “sitting on the threshold of LIGHT, he looks into it from within the circle of Darkness, which he will not cross; not will he quit his post till the last day of this life-cycle.”

    “Why does he sit be the fountain of primeval Wisdom, of which he drinks no longer, as he has naught to learn which he does not know……because he has sacrificed himself for the sake of mankind, though but a few Elect may profit by the GREAT SACRIFICE.” (SD, I. p. 207, 208)

    Does not Krishna say that though there is nothing in the three regions of the universe for him to perform, nor anything possible to obtain which he has not obtained, and that yet he is constantly in action, failing which all these creatures would perish ?

    Most inspiring !

    Universe comes into existence by sacrifice, is sustained by sacrifice, evolves towards endless perfection through sacrifice. Sacrifice is the Law of Life.

    Selfishness, the Darwinian idea of fight for survival in and for animal existence, though partially true on the animal plane, it is wholly false, the very antithesis of human life in its higher aspect.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Hello Pierre. Thanks for the nice comment. I agree. The word sacrifice has a crude connotation in the ordinary parlance–as slaughtering animals in religious rites for worldly gains. But it it has an altogether different meaning in Wisdom tradition, as you have pointed out. Yes, it means adding to, elevating, transforming, transmuting, ennobling, raising up something to a higher status. It has an aura of sanctity, a sacredness. I also think Yajna – Sacrifice means this.

    I believe this raising up of something to higher status involve giving up of the lower status by certain means and growing up to a higher order. A seed has to die in order to become a tree, the baby has to die out of its uterine life in order to be born as a man or a woman. Man and woman have to die as man and woman in order to be reborn in spirit as gods. This transition from the lower to the higher involves a certain effort and pain.

    The personal self, the alter Ego on earth of the Eternal Ego in heaven, has to die out of its worldly life, so natural to it, in order to be born as an immortal Ego : ie., merging with the Higher Ego. As St Paul says corruption has to put on incorruption, mortality has to out on immortality. This transition to the higher from the lower is a conscious effort in the light of full knowledge of replacing the transitory and the perishable with the permanent and everlasting. It is a conscious dissolution of the former and rebirth into the latter.

    This is one side of the story.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Gerry Kiffe
    January 7, 2017 at 10:39 pm #4388

    Thus it is evident that the universe of beings comes into existence because of sacrifice, exist by sacrifice, progresses and emancipated by sacrifice – Yajna. SACRIFICE is the law of life.

    In her polemical discussions with Emile Bournof HPB argues that the Darwinian theory of struggle for life and survival of the fittest that it is a pseudo law, in the sense that it is not universal ; that it seems to be in action in the vegetable kingdom, in the animal world, and not in the human kingdom except in the man’s animal nature; and that it is wholly inapplicable in the higher human nature. Higher evolution of man takes place only by the law of sacrifice.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    It is commendable work on your part, Lami, to have studied, understood and introduced it to your countrymen the Secret Doctrine of HPB. Only those who have open mind and love of truth can undertake such commendable work.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Thanks Pierre for reminding of the source of the statement


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    That’s right Pavel.

    And, of equal mindedness :

    “And he is esteemed among all who, whether amongst his friends and companions, in the midst of enemies or those who stand aloof or remain neutral, with those who love and those who hate, and in the company of sinners or the righteous, is of equal mind.” (vi / 4)

    The more one realizes the unreality (in the sense of ever-changing, non-permanent, lacking inherent eternal subsistence) of the aggregate called personality, and the emptiness of the world personality conceives in its mind, the more one becomes indifferent to the illusion of personal self. Truly a Maya !

    “Thou has to study the voidness of the seeming full and fullness of the seeming void.”

    “Knowest thou of the Self the powers, O thou perceiver of external shadows ? If thou dost not then art thous lost.” (Voice of the Silence)


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    HPB says both SD and the Voice are from the same source. Am not able to remember the text and the page reference where it occurs


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Thanks David. I remember the SD quote.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    “Equal-mindedness is called Yoga.”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Hegel, the German philosopher, correctly articulates the Occult doctrine in his theory of “Unconscious purposiveness” cited in SD, I, 640 :

    “These vast congeries of volitions, interests and activities constitute the instruments and the means of the WORLD SPIRIT for attaining its object : bringing it to consciousness and realizing it. And this aim is none other than finding itself–coming to itself–and contemplating itself in concrete actuality.”

    This is the undertone of wondrous manifestations of the WORLD SPIRIT. Call it Paramatama, of Brahma, if you like. This One Spirit or One Life manifests itself as many selves to arrive at the grand end. If the whole human history is to be seen in this light, meaning underlying every event and experience can be discerned. Goes on he :

    “But those manifestations of vitality on the part of individuals and peoples, in which they seek and satisfy their own purposes, are at the same time the means and the instrument of a higher power, of a higher and a broader purpose of which they know nothing–which they realize unconsciously–might be made a matter of question; rather has been questioned…..on this point I announced my view at the very outset, and asserted our hypothesis…and our belief that REASON GOVERNS THE WORLD AND HAS CONSEQUENTLY GOVERNED ITS HISTORY. In relation to this independently universal and substantial existence–all
    else is subordinate, subservient to it, and the means for its development.”

    HPB says that no one can demur to these truths which are all embodied in esoteric teachings.

    “According to Hegel, the “Unconscious” would never have undertaken the vast and laborious task of evolving the Universe, except in the hope of attaining clear Self-consciousness.” (SD, I, 51)

    Why THAT, the Absolute Consciousness,” is called Unconsciousness is because it cannot have any element of personality, as it transcends human conceptions.

    “Only the liberated Spirit is able to faintly realize the nature of the source whence it sprung and whither it must eventually return.” (ibid)

    We see here Universal Brotherhood, the unity of Self and unity of the grand purpose of all–however much we may be ignorant of it, even oppose it, deride the idea, still, all these conflicting theologies, views, doctrines arsing out of human beliefs are the very experiences which finally lead to that one grand end.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Rouhani’s questions in post no. 4653

    Question 1 :Take ye a God, a supreme Objective or Ideal, apart from the Infinitely Glorious One?

    Response : The first fundamental proposition of Theosophy is ABSOLUTE Deity, boundless, eternal, immutable, infinite. IT cannot be named, cannot even be represented in any way or conceptualized, because it transcends the limitation of human thought, but can be sensed by the highest spiritual senses of a perfect Sage or a Seer. That is the highest ideal towards which all are heading, as from That all come. But IT cannot be fully realized by even the highest Sage. Logically, it not possible for finite to encompass Infinity but it ever progresses towards it more and more, but never reaches it.

    As the Light on the Path says : You can enter the light but can never touch the flame.

    2. Take ye a sublime ideal apart from your infinite and absolute source, home and destination, the Incomparable and Unexcelled?

    Response : Now sir, come to think of it this way. How can you form an Ideal of that which is ABSOLUTE, INFINITE, ETERNAL of which you cannot even conceptualize ? Does it make sense in “worshiping” Absolute, a perfect abstraction ? If THAT is itself Causeless but the Cause of all that was, is and ever shall be, can it be absent from any point or an atom in boundless space ? If you cannot sense the presence of THAT in your fellowmen, in your friend, in your enemy, in the tree, in the humble earth worm, in the pebble, in the flaming fire, in the flowing water, in the sweet smelling earth, in the rushing wind, and honour and worship THAT in all these and everything, how can you worship THAT apart from all that you see, feel, touch and sense ? If you cannot, then your proclamation that only THAT should be worshiped is illogical and hypocritical, and nothing nothing short of dogmatism. It is this dogmatism which is the source of all troubles throughout human history.

    Theosophy teaches that the abstract Eternal can only be realized in collective humanity. It teaches that individual self is in essence and reality THAT, and THAT is seen in the collective Humanity. The ideal is self-identification with Humanity which is the highest expression of THAT. The ideal is to obtain knowledge and wisdom to realize this and help and aid all mankind in the evolutionary journey back to the source from which it emanated.

    Question : And call ye upon deities other than the Absolute One, Paramatma, Infinite Self or Spirit?

    Response : Universe is embodied consciousness consisting of endless series of hierarchies of intelligent intracosmic forces, from formless and the highest to the more tangible spiritual forms. They are all impersonal forces having many cosmic functions. They can be classified into two main groups. Sub-human, and supra-human. sub-human will come into human stage in the cyclic progress, and the supra-human are the human Egos who have evolved beyond the human stage to live in spirit as part of the hierarchies as coworkers with Nature in governance of worlds and beings according to the Cosmic Karmic Laws. These hierarchies are evolving also higher and higher with each new great cycle, ever approaching the Absolute, but never touching THAT, of which we can form no conception.

    Question : Then ye err, and all your works will come to nought, renegades from the inextinguishable Abode which will inevitably swallow you whole, no matter how long ye run and hide, serving illusion beyond your measure, serving that which comes to naught.

    Response : This question has been raised because of misconceptions explicit on the above three questions. As they have been clarified question 4 seems misplaced.

    The tone and the tenor of the last question has all the terrible flavour of the ritual of the public penance of condemned heretics and apostates during Spanish Inquisition. We plead NOT GUILTY.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Irfan Rouhani
    January 23, 2017 at 7:37 pm #4652

    I wonder what makes our brother Rouhani to discredit Madhyamika school of Mahayana Buddhism with such vehemence ! Nalanda, like its western counterpart, the Alexandrian school of Neoplatonism, was a great university in which all branches of science, religion, philosophy, arts were studied. Both were the meeting place of western and eastern cultural traditions. Light shone brightly from these two great luminaries of learning.

    Why were both destroyed ? Alexandrian library was gutted in fire more than once. Last time the army of of Julius Ceaser set it on fire and destroyed it completely just about the close of the pre-christian era. Nalanda was destroyed by Moghul invaders.

    No one or no community can be blamed. As Rouhani says is the working of the cyclic and Karmic law. What has a beginning must have an end, and what ends has its reappearance elsewhere. Nothing is destroyed really. Physical objects like MSS, concrete structures, personalities do get destroyed but all the knowledge and wisdom remain in the Souls to be brought out again when they return under cyclic law. As the Voice of the Silence says, the Ego is the man that was, is and ever shall be, it is knowledge itself, not of fleeting life. It is symbolized as the leaves of the Tree of Life which continuously renews itself, season after season. It is like the cyclic revolution of the seasons. Periods of enlightenment are followed by periods of darkness. End of a cycle is always accompanied by cataclysms–by fire, or floods, earth quakes, destruction by armies etc. But the Eternal Sutratman, the Ego, who is the repository of all the acquired and assimilated wisdom of immense past is never destroyed but returns again.

    About Rouhani’s ire against the stalwart of the Madhyamika school of Mahayana Buddhism, Shanti Deva, all true students of comparative religions–especially in the light of Theosophy–know such animosity is misplaced, owing, perhaps, to some theological prejudice, but they hold Shanti Deva in highest esteem, and immensely value the Mahayana wisdom tradition, as the most logical, scientific, systematic exposition of the nature of Reality or Truth. One reason why theistic religionists detest Buddhism is–most probably–it does not speak of “God” as monotheists do. If Mahayanists do not speak of God in anthropmorphic sense is that such conceptions are merely human mind creations and has no reality. The ultimate Reality cannot be named, worshiped in the anthropomorphic sense but to be realized as absolutely Impersonal, unnameable, indescribable THAT or SUCHNESS, and THAT Thou Art. Brahmans call it Brahm. But Buddhist may call it Adi-Buddh.

    Even the intelligent creative forces — which are personified and euhemeriszed in myths and legends as gods and goddesses— are also Impersonal intracosmic forces not to be worshiped, but the constitution of man in his spiritual, psychic and physical being is formed of the essence of these Planetary spirits. He is integrated, inseparably interwoven with them and the Absolute Deity. What God is there on earth but Man ?

    There is no higher ideal a man may ever find than the Bodhisattva Ideal. If some people denounce it, they are welcome to do so. No problem. But if they ever shed their theological predilections and biases and look into it honestly, they will revise their antagonistic posture.

    The Voice of the Silence which we study and follow belongs precisely to this Mahayana School of which Shanti Deva was a Master exemplar.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    By psychic practices, Irfan, we mean what is called “sitting for development,” engaging in yoga practices for acquisition of Siddhis. This is very common in India. Hatha Yoga practices are one kind of it. The latter is devotion to the body and bodily perfection by means of yogic postures and breath control (Pranayama) Instead of the mind being directed to the Eternal, it is directed to the corruption of the mortal frame. This will lead to gradual atrophy of Antahkarana –the bridge that links mortal man to his Higher Self, and, if pursued for long, will lead to a calamity called Spiritual Death.

    Masters warn against this. They are dead against Pranayama. They say it is both physical and moral death.

    Many a misguided devotee has hurt himself. in his psychic and nervous organization.

    Every street corner of India you will find money making “gurus” who will teach you Kundalini yoga, “transcendental meditation” and even communications with so-called spirits.

    These are dangerous psychic practices which are not only ruinous to mental, moral and physical well-being of man but, if pursued foolishly, will develop mediumship and, worse, land him in black magic.

    Once open the inner door to the Astral World, it cannot be shut nor can he be helped. Dangerous influences of the Astral Light will take control of him over which he will have no control, and lead him to ruin.

    Raja Yoga is to be pursued. Voice of the Silence teaches the purest and highest Raja Yoga. You will not find Raja Yogis. They remain anonymous, the true renouncers, silently work for the good of humanity, but are available to the pure in heart, the truly devoted.

    You will have to study Theosophy deeply to understand it.Of course, religious practices laid down by the Dharma Shastras, like, Nama Japa, fasting, control of the senses and mind, purificatory practices and ethical living are good and helpful. But even here the MOTIVE is the most important factor. If the Motive in indulging in these is pure Love and devotion to the Supreme with no selfish intent, they are beneficial.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    The charge is wholly baseless, in my view. Much needs to be said on this point but time and limited space are constraints.

    True way is to first to seek and comprehend the right philosophy of life, then right thought and right action on the basis of the truth learnt–which is essentially to comprehend the reality of Universal Brotherhood, the ethical law of moral causation, and practice ethics based on these. This mental and moral effort cleanses the mind and heart of wrong beliefs, false ideas, lower desires and passions, develops dispassion, love of truth, altruism, devotion to humanity through intuitive understanding of the self to be in reality All-Self, destruction of sense of the illusions of the sense of separateness.

    this is the true path, this is the true practice, from within without. This is the path Theosophy shows, the end and aim of which is entire renunciation of Self–of even the bliss of Nirvana–to work ceaselessly for humanity for cycles without number.

    Theosophy warns against psychic practices which are run after by multitude in the name of spiritual progress.

    True practice and the immutable laws of spiritual development are clearly given out. This is unambiguously taught in the Bhagavadgita, the Voice of the Silence, Light on the Path, and the Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali. Nothing could be more clear and more definite than these devotional books in the right spiritual practices.

    Remember the warning with which the Voice of the Silence begins the instructions on the true meditation practice :

    “These instructions are for those who are ignorant of the dangers of Lower Iddhi.”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Sanmantha’s comment 4588

    It is said :

    “This becomes stronger when we consider the research and interpretation of Jurewicz regarding the “rebirth cosmology” of the funeral hymns in book 10 of the Rigveda. According to Jurewicz, in the Vedic view the departed soul goes to the sun, remains there for a period, and then returns in the rain, which produces plants which are eaten by the deceased’s relatives. Rebirth in the family of the deceased then follows. This also makes sense of the many passages in the Rigveda which speak of transmigration into plant life, noted by Werner.”

    Soul going to the sun, remaining there for a time, and returning by the rain which produced plants, which are eaten by relatives, and this followed by rebirth, has been explained in the Chadogya Upanishad cited earlier, 5-9-1 to 5-10-10

    How does the disembodied Ego return to another rebirth ? Chandaogya says that the return path is through cloud, rain, plants, animals, thence into the seed of man, from seed of man to the egg of the woman. There is nothing phallic in it, being a perfectly natural process of rebirth at this stage of Man’s evolution.

    Mr Judge speaks of it in the outlines of his occult novel given in Letters on page 253-4.
    In fact in another article on rebirth of man in animals, Mr. Judge has shown, the truth underlying the superstitious belief among the Hindus and Buddhists that man may be reborn in animals or plants. Theosophical axiom being Once a Man always a Man. That is, the Ego can never go back to lower kingdoms of nature. But during the passage to reincarnation, it may get caught up in vegetable and animal bodies, which Hindus dread. The more on deviates from the harmony of life the more the Ego has to suffer such dreadful fate. In the normal cases the passage to rebirth is quick, but in other cases of opposite kind, cases of bad Karma, the passage is obstructive and delayed.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    We are unlikely to find the Senzar anywhere as it is a secret sacerdotal language. In Isis, I, p. 440, the narration of Abbe Huc, who visited Tibet and closely examined the strange characters and images on the leaves and the under the bark of the sacred tree of Kounboum in Tibet, is given. HPB adds in the last para of the page referred to that the characters which the Abbe say was “Sansar” or “Language of the Sun” characters, and that it is ancient Sanscrit.

    “The sacred tree, in its various parts, contain in extenso the whole history of the creation, and in substance the sacred books of Buddhism” (ibiden)

    Speaking of the mystery language, in a historical perspective, in Isis II, p. 46, HPB says that the Akkadians instructed the Babylonians in the Mysteries, and taught them the Mystery language, and that these Akkadians were the tribe of Hindu-Brahmans, whose vernacular language was the Sanscrit of the Vedas. She says that the initiated Brahmans and Fakirs use this Mystery language in their magical evocations, and that it is still employed by the Initiates of all countries from time immemorial and that it is precisely characters of this language which appeared in the leaves and bark of the sacred Kounboum.

    She quotes Jacolliot, the French Orientalists, who penetrated the mysteries of Brahminical initiations, that it was forbidden, under the penalty of death to translate them into vulgar tongues. And he gives rare expressions which he caught, thus :

    L’rhom, h’hom, sh’hrum, sho’rhim

    This is how, probably, it will sound when spoken ! What can we make out of them ?

    He wrote that the formulas in that tongue were not written but transmitted from mouth to ear.

    So we are unlikely to find the Book of Dzan in senzar anywhere in the world.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Implication of Deity being both transcendent and immanent is this–as it seems to me–SELF. My and your true Self, which is ONE and not many, and yet many, many in One and One in many.

    “I am” in all, as all are in “me,” not the bodily me, feeling me, the mind me, the knowledge me, the bliss me, but the “me” the Self” of which all these different “me’s” are specific manifestations in different planes–each the cause of the next more concrete. Yet these are all One. These septenary gradations of the One Self without a second is the Real Man, a graduated Unity.

    So are you and every other. In truth and reality there is only ONE.

    “As the single Sun illuminates the world, so does one Spirit illuminates all bodies.” (Bhagavadgita).

    Though we see separateness from our personality perspective–a key-hole perspective–if and as we rise to our higher consciousness we see more and more vividly the Oneness of one-self with All-self. That’s the reality, separateness is illusion of ignorant lower self.

    Hence universal Brotherhood, hence the absolutely just Law of Universal Harmony, called Karma, the Law of our true Being. This entails responsibility, since my actions, even thoughts, have instantaneous effect for good or ill on all mankind and all other beings, (especially the lower kingdoms of nature which depend on me (on mankind) for their evolution to higher stages), productive of good and evil results, which will come back to me for adjustment of disturbed harmony.

    All pain and sorrow are the result of thought and action on the notion and belief that we are different and separate from others (Avidya) hence selfish action.
    The one and only way to happiness, world peace and true progress of all, is Altruism, devotion to the World Ideal of Universal Brotherhood. Each lives for the good of all and all for each, true brotherhood and sisterhood.

    However far the ideal may seem to us, nevertheless that is the reality towards which we are progressing.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Neither Immanence of Deity nor its transcendence can be demonstrated empirically to us even by the Enlightened One who know it. They can only give us the philosophy of it, the science of it, demonstrate it to our higher reason, and thus help us to dimly perceive the reality of it with the Eye of Reason and developing Intuition.

    We can only, at our state of development, have to depend upon i. the credibility and trustworthiness of the Teacher who is imparting the truth to us, and ii. use of higher reason.

    Higher reason, because, reason based on mere empiricism, though important, is insufficient. we have to develop and use Reason based on fundamental universal principles truth of which are self-evident. Example : the three fundamental propositions of the SD.

    Of course, we may be accused of being dogmatic for adopting this approach, and speaking if it, whereas it is not so.

    No teacher, however high, can give us–the beginners, the mere tyros as we are– more than this.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Samantha’s post #4540

    1. It is said :

    “The Werner paper that Miller cited lays out this context very clearly. It’s been uploaded to
    this blog (albeit without attribution).
    In addition to the passage under discussion, he also cites RV 10:88:15, rendered by Jamison and Brereton as follows:
    I have heard from the forefathers that there are two routes, (that of) the gods and (that of) mortals.
    Along those two everything that moves goes together, whatever is between the father [=Heaven] and the mother [=Earth].”

    My comment : Are not the above verses strongly reminiscent of the two paths all souls follow, mentioned in the 8th chapter of the Bhagavadgita and Chandogya Upanishad 5-9-1 to 5-10-10 —
    the path of the moon and the path of the Sun, by the one, who departs returns again, and the other path by which one departs returns not ?

    The path of the sun is the path of the gods. By gods must mean souls who have attained immortality by following the path of the sun, and the mortals necessarily fall into the path of the moon, and have to return again and again.

    It is reminiscent of it, but may not be the real meaning intended.

    2. Further it is said in Samanta’s post :

    ” why we do not receive a clear exposition? Werner points out that the Vedas are “hymns and not explanatory writings.” The Vedas are “not expressed in straightforward conceptual language such as could be readily understood by our rational minds, but in symbols and mythological images which require special effort from us to establish their meanings.”

    Werner is right. Not only are the Vedic writings symbolic but the esotericism lies deeply hidden in the SWARA – the intonation of the mantras while chanting. Even slight change in the inflection changes the meaning and produces effect specific to that modulation.

    But correct inflectional chanting is certainly lost in India. There may be very few who may know it but remain unknown, anonymous.

    Moreover, HPB, even Swami Dayananda Saraswati who was an Initiate says, what we have of the Vedas in public domain are not even a fifth of the original corpus, and are rejected copies.

    Hence straining after grammar and philological hair-spitting are not much help.

    The only right approach which will unveil to us the hidden sense of the Vedas is the Path of the Heart Doctrine : the Path of the Sun, of Fire, of the fortnight of the bright moon that confers immortality.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Oh, no, Pavel, I know you do not mean to criticize anyone in this group. But critical comments are indeed welcome. They help us to get out of the rut of particular thought pattern we may have fallen into, and learn to think in other ways, and see from the eyes of others. It is a good exercise, a good practice in cultivating universal brotherhood.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Excellent, most cogent comments, Pierre. Thanks.

    To people who find fault with theosophical students that they deal only with concepts, I would like to ask them to show one who has made a quantum leap to the formless Reality without first having to deal with concepts representing the former. The Buddha, like his predecessors, begins with right philosophy (Samyak Darshana). First the student has to free his mind from wrong conceptions regarding life and nature, and acquire the right knowledge of Reality conceptually as taught to him by the Teacher who has mastered Absolute Truth, and learn to think and reason correctly. That is the first step.

    Mere thinking will not do. Samyak Darshana is accompanied by two other practices : Samyak Vacha – Right Speech ; and Samyak Charitra – right livelihood or right conduct based on truth that he has been able to perceive.

    In Vedantic system it is the same approach : Shravana (hearing, ie. study), Manana (reflection and meditation on axioms), Nidhidhyasana (putting into practice what one has studied and understood)

    Continuation of this practice leads gradually from conceptual knowledge to actual experience of the formless Self as the Self of All, through a series of progressive awakening of the Ego

    Those who seem to have apparently made the quantum leap to the formless, as is seen in the lives of some extraordinary persons, it is evident that they have in the past lives made this progress to a consummate end, and it required just a touch by the Master to bring the past efforts of the disciple to fruition.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    You are right. In all sacred scriptures truth is partially revealed and mostly concealed with deliberate blinds and contradictions purposely made. It is said the reason for it is that sacred truths cannot be revealed to unprepared minds, as danger lies in it both to the revealer and the society. But to the instructed and initiated the hidden light in the scriptures are at once apparent. Concealment thus serves two purposes.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Irfan’s post 4518

    Yes. The first seven verses of the first Sura of the Quron is most beautiful and devotional, full of Light–even in its English translation–if contemplated in the light of Theosophy. It must be much more so in Arabic tongue.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel, thanks for the clarification. It is of course undeniable that we, the learners, who are trying to understand the philosophy, to live up to its precepts as best as we can (failing more often than not), and to disseminate the ideas to the best of their understanding and ability, cannot do any thing more than their limited capacity.

    Each earnest student is a learner and a worker for the Theosophical Cause. As one learns, applies and works on, his understanding and intuitive grasp of the philosophy improves, and correspondingly his ability to disseminate also gets better. Learners who have long years of experience in Theosophical study and work naturally help and teach new comers and new inquirers. But none can claim to be teacher. HPB says in her 5 Messages that students at best can only be Student-teachers.

    History of the TS shows that the original teachings were indeed not only diluted but distorted, and even supplanted with uncalled for interpretations.

    This was the reason why Robert Crosbie revived the Movement by founding ULT, brought back into circulation original unadulterated Message of the true Founders, and their Teachings, and original lines of work they had laid down.

    As long as students remain loyal to the original program and lines of work–all of which have unambiguously delineated in the writings of HPB abd WQJ–there is little chance of the original teaching getting lost.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    So, Irfan, what then is the criterion of Truth ? In other words, what is the standard, the yard stick–so to say–by which we are able to judge the truth, or partial truth or error of whatever is presented to us ?


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel, you said :

    “And the teachings of Karma and reincarnation, or perhaps their more diluted versions, as we know them in Theosophy may give us an opportunity for more wishful thinking, where we actually experience the attachment (klesha) to our current personality but tend to interpret it in the terms of Real Self.”

    If I have understood you aright, you seem to say that our true self is far removed from our present existential consciousness, and that whatever is said of the former in various philosophies, like Hinduism, Buddhism, we try to understand them but end up interpreting them, and presenting them to others what we have understood in terms of Real Self, though we have not known and experienced it.

    Am I right ?

    Do I also understand you to have said that Theosophy presents diluted version of the doctrines of Karma and Reincarnation ?

    It is important that we understand each other well for conversation to be truly useful.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Samantha Province
    January 16, 2017 at 5:12 am #4493

    Excellent quote. This is the first fundamental proposition of Theosophy–Absolute Deity, the Unknowable, under two aspects in the conception of truth seeking minds :

    Absolute Abstract Motion
    Absolute Abstract Space.

    Whether universes are there or not IT IS, boundless, eternal, immutable, unconditioned, infinite, and, therefore, Unknowable, but the causeless, Cause, the Rootless Root all that was, is and ever shall be, unrelated to the manifested.

    The root and essence of every being, high or low, is THAT, because IT cannot be absent from any point in boundless space. Hence the Upanishads say THAT THOU ART

    THAT is the only reality, all the rest, the whole universe, including the gods, is a passing illusion, like our personality.

    This is highest conception of God Theosophy presents.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Ref : Kristan Stratos
    January 14, 2017 at 1:02 pm #4467

    Very beautiful verses, Kristan, of the Gathas on precosmic condition of unmanifest universe. The verse :

    “It was this piece, the Ahuna-vairya, O Spitama Zarathushtra! which I pronounced as thine, before the sky…..” etc

    What was pronounced, it seems, judging by the context, was WORD, Logos, — outer expression of hidden Thought.

    “Even before good creatures made by Mazda..” is very suggestive.

    Mazda, like Brahma Prajapati, plays the role of Builders and the Watchers of the S.D. who build the systems of worlds according to plan in the Universal Mind. In SD, I, p. 200, in the diagram we see the stages of evolution of worlds gradually from Idea into concrete expression, in stages : Archetypal world, the Intellectual or creative world, and the 3rd stage downward is the the substantial or formative world. It is only after the last of the above three, comes into existence our material world.

    It looks like the first three Rounds of the Earth Chain, of ethereal and astral nature, which are finally succeeded by the 4th Round of our globe, material world.

    “Holy biped men” who was created is strongly reminiscent of the I ethereal Races oozed out by Lunar Pitris in the beginning of the 4th Round. They were holy because they we the SONS OF PASSIVE YOGA, unconscious production of mindless men by Lunar Ancestors but super-spiritual — the primordial pioneers of terrestrial mankind who fell into sin and generation.

    Gathas are full of strong echoes of the Secret Doctrine, Probably less difficult to comprehend than the Vedic symbolism.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    To add to what Kirk has said, it is shown why we do not retain the memory of last lives, and how it can be gained.

    Memory as we know it pertains to the body and the brain we are now using in this life, and it is limited to incidents of this present personal life. How then can this body of the present life retain the memory of the past life in which it had not taken part ?

    An example is given : Is it reasonable to look for evidence in the new clothes a man is wearing for theft he had committed days back wearing old clothes which he has discarded ?

    But the man himself knows, and from him must be obtained information about what he did, and not the clothes he is wearing.

    The essential memory of past lives is retained in the Reincarnating Ego–the Individuity–which is without birth or death, and not in the personality which changes entirely in each rebirth, with a new body, new brain and memory pertaining to that specific perishable personal self.

    Three kinds of memory are spoken of : Remembrance, Recollection and Reminiscence.

    The first two Pertain to the personality, which lasts as long as it lives and perishes entirely when the person dies.

    But Reminiscence is the memory of the Soul – of the Reincarnating Ego – who is the Real Man, “the Man that was, that is and ever will be, for whom the hour shall never strike,” as the Vioce of the Silemce says. The Ego retains the memory of all its immense number of past lives it had lived on earth. Moreover, it being shining beam of the Universal Mind, is godly with godly knowledge. It is not of fleeting life. That “we” are, not this passing shadow, an illusion.

    To remember past lives, Teachers say, the shadow, terrestrial man, must bring his whole lower nature to accord with his divine Self, spirituaiize it and make it porous to the Light of the Higher Self. Then only memory of past lives can trickle into the brain-mind.

    Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali delineates the scientific process by which this may be accomplished.

    One who successfully accomplishes this difficult feat, will also bring back spiritual knowledge of the deep sleep state into the waking life, which with us, who are not regenerated, is a blank.

    This is said only to underscore reasonableness of Theosophical teachings, absence of any dogmatic assertions in it nor any element of blind faith nor priestly authority.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    To add to what Kirk has said, it is shown why we do not retain the memory of last lives, and how it can be gained.

    Memory as we know it pertains to the body and the brain we are now using in this life, and it is limited to incidents of this present personal life. How then can this body of the present life retain the memory of the past life in which it had not taken part ?

    An example is given : Is it reasonable to look for evidence in the new clothes a man is wearing for theft he had committed days back wearing old clothes which he has discarded ?

    But the man himself knows, and from him must be obtained information about what he did, and not the clothes he is wearing.

    The essential memory of past lives is retained in the Reincarnating Ego–the Individuity–which is without birth or death, and not in the personality which changes entirely in each rebirth, with a new body, new brain and memory pertaining to that specific perishable personal self.

    Three kinds of memory are spoken of : Remembrance, Recollection and Reminiscence.

    The first two Pertain to the personality, which lasts as long as it lives and perishes entirely when the person dies.

    But Reminiscence is the memory of the Soul – of the Reincarnating Ego – who is the Real Man, “the Man that was, that is and ever will be, for whom the hour shall never strike,” as the Vioce of the Silemce says. The Ego retains the memory of all its immense number of past lives it had lived on earth. Moreover, it being shining beam of the Universal Mind, is godly with godly knowledge. It is not of fleeting life. That “we” are, not this passing shadow, an illusion.

    To remember past lives, Teachers say, the shadow, terrestrial man, must bring his whole lower nature to accord with his divine Self, spirituaiize it and make it porous to the Light of the Higher Self. Then only memory of past lives can trickle into the brain-mind.

    Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali delineates the scientific process by which this may be accomplished.

    One who successfully accomplishes this difficult feat, will also bring back spiritual knowledge of the deep sleep state into the waking life, which with us, who are not regenerated, is a blank.

    This is said only to underscore reasonableness of Theosophical teachings, absence of any dogmatic assertions in it nor any element of blind faith nor priestly authority.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Irfan,

    The coming of Wise ones into the world to help mankind, as far as I understand, is in accordance with the cyclic law and Karma of the race. people to whom such come must be ready, and wanting and hungering for Truth. When the cry of the HEART (not mind) is heard in heaven response comes. For instance, it is mentioned by the great Teachers that The Secret Doctrine, which They recorded for the world of 19th-21st century, is dedicated to all true Theosophists, in every country, and every race, FOR THEY CALLED IT FORTH, AND FOR THEM IT WAS RECORDED.

    In the Key to Theosophy HPB states (in the sub-section, “Why Theosophy is accepted,” in chapter II, entitled, “Exoteric and Esoteric Theosophy) the reason Theosophy came to be put forward at that time :

    “Just because the time was found ripe, which fact is shown by the determined effort of so many earnest students to REACH THE TRUTH, at whatever cost and wherever it may be concealed. Seeing this, its custodians permitted that some portions at least of that truth should be proclaimed.”

    The timing of giving out help is again Karmically very appropriate, not too early, nor too late : She goes on to say,

    “Had the formation of the Theosophical Society been postponed a few years longer, one half of the civilized nations would have become by this time rank materialists, and the other half anthropomorphists and phenomenalists.”

    It was an unveiling of old, very old, truths to the minds hitherto ignorant of them.

    Condition of the world bad as it is, it would have been far worse but for the unremitting sacrificial labours of the Wise Ones who are ever at work for the good of the world, but They are also governed by the Cyclic and Karmic Law.

    How much more, and how soon, further teachings and help will be given by them, they say, depends on how well what has been given out has been assimilated, and on the spread of the seminal ideas in the world, by the labours of lay- students of every race and country for whom it is recorded.

    The earnest and sincere students by their self-regeneration and unselfish labours in the Cause of Theosophy and elevation of the Race, attract corresponding response from the Holy Ones.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    That’s right. No great Teacher ever came to found a new religion but to renew the spirit of the existing religions which have fallen into corruption, like the tree renews its leaves every spring.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Please tell us Pavel how modern Theosophy is turning into dogma ? Give us some illustrations.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    This passage reminds on of the opening verse of the Gospel according to St John :

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”

    In Isis II, 37, HPB says that the “In the beginning” is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word RASIT, which means Wisdom, and that Wisdom is the first manifestation from the Absolute Deity, or En-Soph. It is also ETERNAL LAW, because, Law and Deity are one. Another aspect of it is Absolute Abstract Motion.

    The first born Protogonos, the Hindu Brahma, Adam Kadmon of the Kabalists, Logos of Plato, the creative Deity, radiated from Absolute Deity in obedience to ETERNAL LAW, which two are one.

    The idea is that behind the creative Deity who fashions the universe out of pre-existent Pre-cosmic eternal Root Matter, there lies a HIGHER god, a planner, and Architect.The Creative Deity is the executive agent of the planner and the Architect.

    The trinity of Spirit – Voice – Word should make it clearer (Transactions of Blavatsky Lodge, p, 149 :

    SPIRIT emanates from Absoulute Unknown Darkness (En-Soph) in accordance with the Eternal Law.
    This spirit is coevel with Primordial pre-cosmic Substance, also called Waters of Space.

    Spirit mirrors itself in the Waters of Space, the still undifferentiated matter of the future universe.

    This reflection is the VOICE, the pioneer of the Word or Logos–the definite and objective expression of that which had remained in the depths of concealed Thought (Cosmic Ideation)

    That which mirrors itself in space is the Third Logos–the executive agent of the concealed thought.

    We must learn the difference between creative Cause (III Logos) and Ideal Cause (concealed Thought or Wisdom)

    In man this trinity is seen as Atma-Buddhi-Manas


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Garo Ketchian
    January 7, 2017 at 6:18 am #4368
    Mentioned that Zoroastrians were persecuted and driven out of Iran by Islamists. They Came to India, like the Tibetan refugees did recently following Chinese invasion and genocide. When they landed in on the west coast of India, the Indian rulers accorded them warm welcome and gave them land and all the facilities. They are in minority now but enjoy perfect freedom, and they have contributed mightily to the country is every field–economic, commerce, trade, governance, military.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    One of the axioms of the First fundamental proposition of Theosophy is that the manifested universe is pervaded by duality — One Life, dual in manifestation.

    It is logical and self-evident that without the pairs of opposites–light and darkness, good and evil etc.– there can be no existence nor can there be any evolution. Dualism of the Gathas is quite scientific.

    Spirit of the earth complaining to Ahura Mazda is a recurring theme in the Puranas. Kristan quoted from Bhagavata Purana. The same theme recurs in Vishnu Purana, where the Earth, unable to bear any longer the inequities perpetrated by the wicked prays to Brahmaa, who is Ahura Mazda in the Gathas. In Vishnu Purana, Brahmaa (Manifested or III Logos) directs her to Maha Vishnu, who alone can re-establish the disturbed harmony by descending on earth (Avatara meaning descent, Avatarana)

    Maha Vishnu is here the Ideal Cause, Brahmaa, the creative Cause.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Very helpful thoughts, Gerry. Thanks


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Thanks Pavel for the information. I will look up the subject on the internet for more information.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    That is the purpose of civilization. HPB says that a civilization must produce spiritual fruit. Otherwise it is a dead civilization, like the many “living dead” among the masses.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Tjinners wrote (#4414) :

    ” And upon the death of Jesus the man, Christ the Logos moved onto another individual (which would explain why the disciples didn’t recognize him when he initially reappeared). Christ the Logos could also be viewed as one of the higher, more advanced beings written about in Theosophical texts.”

    That seems to be an intuitional interpretation. If the teaching about the mystery of Avatars is carefully read in SD, II, p. 358,359 the sense of what Tjinners is saying becomes clearer.

    It speaks of the descent and ascent of the gods – mystically; and of the signs of the Zodiac – astronomically.

    Mystically, the all Avatars are a direct emanation of the Logos, under whatever name. They are essential incarnation of one of the Seven, of the Divine Spirit who is seven-fold. They all came, and come again and again, as instructors and guides of mankind. They appear and reappear at the conjunctions of major and minor cycles — “Until in their last incarnation they had become truly only ‘the parts of a part’ [amshaamsha] on earth, though de facto the One Supreme in Nature.”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Sure. It does. In her article, Psychic and Noetic Action, HPB gives in one of the foot notes the etymology of Atma as Eternal Motion (Swara). It is the Absolute Abstract Motion or the Great Breath


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Laura’s post 4408 – very pertinent question is raised, and very practical :

    “Tolstoy in his book The Kingdom of Heaven is Within You, indicated that all governments will eventually fail . Each being must take responsibility. It is difficult but necessary to let go by degrees our false ideas. Can we let go of the life we are living and live a life in harmony with nature? We find ourselves with duties to perform that violate our obligation to the environment and to our heart. How do we begin?”

    Tolstoy uttered a truism. It is an echo of the truth uttered in the devotional book, THROUGH THE GATES OF GOLD : It speaks of the Gates of Gold beyond the climax of a civilization. Our civilization has certainly seem to have reached in its perfection of mechanical arts, technological innovations, material wealth and luxury. What next ?

    Is that the end and aim of life, of a civilization ? If it does not meet the ends of the purpose of the Soul, glimpse the glory of the higher life and endeavour to enter it, it will just putrefy and gradually sink into oblivion like its predecessors have done–equivalent of spiritual death.

    HPB says of true culture and civilization : Human life devoid of its world-ideals and beliefs, “in which the whole philosophical antiquity, headed in historical times by Socrates and Plato, by Pythagoras and Alexandrian Neo-platonists, believed–becomes deprived of its higher sense and meaning.” (HPB Article vol. I, p. 357)

    That higher sense and meaning Theosophy gives. Wide dissemination of Theosophical truths of Universal Brotherhood, human solidarity, universal causation and Karma and Reincarnation so as to affect the race mind and fertilize it with these seminal ideas through simultaneous efforts of Theosophical students is the only way. ULT Declaration points the way :

    “That work and that end is the dissemination of the fundamental principles of the philosophy of Theosophy and EXEMPLIFICATION in practice of those principles through a truer realization of the SELF, and a profounder conviction of Universal Brotherhood.”

    We ourselves have to realize more and more the true nature of the Self–which is ALL SELF–and universal brotherhood, think and act on that basis in the performance of every duty that we have to perform, every obligation that we have to fulfill, as sacrifice to Humanity.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Why Grace, don’t we have a contemporary living model civilization in the tiny Himalayan Kingdom of Bhutan whose national goal is GENERAL NATIONAL HAPPINESS (GNH), based on the practical ideal of happiness of all, including birds and animals of the wilds, as opposed to the all-materialistic Western economic development model based on GROSS NATIONAL PRODUCT (GNP),through industrialization, which, we have seen in action all over the globe, ever since it was formulated in the late 18th century by Adam Smith, the father of modern political economy. The propelling force of the latter is GREED–unlimited, insatiable Greed for profit and self-aggrandizement, which we have seen has brought about social, ecological and environmental disasters. Whereas the former, GNH model, is based on the Buddhist ideal of limiting one’s wants, simple living, compassion and concern for the less fortunate fellowmen, and for all sentient beings.

    Bhutan model of progress has for its basis Buddhist philosophy. No reckless industrialization is allowed, pristine forests, mountains, rivers and streams that constitute diverse ecosystems are preserved, and not sacrificed for so-called development and commercial speculation. 80 % of the population have electricity, food, shelter and a widespread contentment and happiness.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Pavel,
    That is an interesting idea — of “developing a soul,” after a prolonged struggle.

    Can you elaborate on the “Fourth way” ?


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Of course Fergus, it is evident from your posts that the idea of reincarnation in the RIg Veda is not in literary forms readily recognizable by us who are used to another forms of expression. You said it quite explicitly. It was not disputed


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    One more point :

    Fergus, You said :

    ” But notice the “parted sires”/”forefathers” (ancestors) and the abundant use of terms like manas, pitris, and soma, all references involving the lunar aspects of our being. A surface reading of this verse, for one with some basic knowledge of the brahmanical ancestor worship, fits quite squarely into it.”

    A very important point. To me it seems that the verse cited certainly do not refer to the degrading practices of worship of the Manes as now prevalent in India, which is nothing but sanctified worship (or appeasement ?) of the shells (spooks) of the departed–of which HPB has spoken extensively in Isis and her other works.

    I would like to draw the attention of my friends to a very important teaching HPB gives regarding the esoteric meaning of true of Pitri worship, in HPB Article vol. II, p. 176, 177, and glossary on Soma and Soma drink. She says :

    “It is not the Pitris individually that were ever consulted, but their STORED WISDOM collectively; that wisdom being shown mystically and allegorically on the bright side of the moon.” (p. 176)

    “What the Brahmans invoke are not ‘the spirits’ of the departed ancestors……But to comprehend fully the nature of the ‘lunar’ ancestors and their connection with the ‘moon’ would necessitate the revelation of occult secrets which are not intended for the public hearing. Therefore no more will be given than the few hints that follow.” (ibid.)

    It is too long to quote here. Soma means, says she, is moon, which is also the name of the mystic drink of the Brahmans [initiated ones, not the present day dead-letter pundits]. There is a connection between that drink and the moon.

    “A ‘Soma-drinker’ attains the power of placing himself in direct rapport with the bright side of the moon, thus deriving inspiration from the CONCENTRATED INTELLECTUAL ENERGY OF THE BLESSED ANCESTORS. This ‘concentration,’ and the moon being the storehouse of that Energy, is the secret, the meaning of which must not be revealed, beyond the mere fact of mentioning the continuous pouring out upon the earth from the bright side of the orb of a certain influence.” (ibid.)

    “That which is invoked is the LUNAR wisdom esoterically, and mot the ‘Lunar ancestor. It was the Wisdom that was invoked by Qu-ta-my, the Chaldean, in the ‘Nabathean Agriculture,’ who wrote down the ‘revelations of the Moon.’ ” (p. 177)

    So, references in Rk verses, you quoted, addressed to ancestors, Soma, Moon, Pitris, I suppose, have references to these verities of Occult Sciences.

    How can such Masters be unaware of Reincarnation beats my understanding.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Fergus,

    A few hymns you quoted from Rig Veda do not seem to contain any reference to reincarnation, but one has to study the whole corpus to find evidence of it.

    It is inconceivable that Rig Vedic compilers did not know Karma and Reincarnation, as HPB says that highest knowledge attainable by man is there in it, and Max Muller finds it most ennobling even in its dead letter sense, to which alone he has access.

    The whole language, imagery, quaint metaphors of the Rk is indeed difficult to understand unless made explicit by one who knows the hidden sense.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    You are right Pierre, that wider diffusion of the doctrines of Karma and Reincarnation will not, –and has not been in places where it is well known–prevent violence and wars. Still, they have a certain mellowing effect, in a subtle way.

    After all we are still in the middle point of the 4th Round wherein Kama reigns supreme, and Higher Manas is dormant. Yet combative animal nature is to a significant extent retrained by the moral force of the conviction and belief in Karma and Reincarnation. as can be seen among peoples where it is popular. They may not know Karma and Reincarnation as philosophical doctrines but it has become a part of their psyche as a hereditary tendency.

    Notwithstanding the many ugly features of Indian society you will find a certain tolerance, patience, long suffering among the masses in adversities. Tendency is more pronounced towards acceptance and resignation than rebellion and anger at adverse circumstances.

    Kristan Stratos was here recently and experienced this particular character among the poor people.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Reincarnation idea was prevalent in the western hemisphere, as Gerry has shown, as widely as it did in the East, and does in India particularly. In the West it vanished with the advent of Christianity, when an anathema was passed on the doctrine by the Roman Church sometime in 4th or the 5th c.

    Had this not happened, if the doctrines of Karma and Reincarnation had prevailed and continued in the West, the very character of Western Civilization would have been different from what it is now.

    When these two truths again gains currency in the western mind, it will bring about a qualitative shift in the world-view of the West, with sweeping changes in the Western society and international relations.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Excellent references from Rk Veda on reincarnation. thanks Alex.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Unquestioned conformity to status quo is due to Tamogunam. It is the indolence of the soul (personal self)


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    We have for our belief in reincarnation the basis of logic, reason, intuition and testimony of absolutely trustworthy witnesses who know it by experience, who show the ways and means by which we also can know it by experience. Such a belief based on Knowledge cannot but be right belief.

    HH Dalai Lama once said that a hypothesis based on a wrong premises and assumption will invariably leads us far from truth, whereas the one based on right premises will ultimately leads to truth.

    Belief or hypothesis of reincarnation is of the latter kind.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Very fine passages you have quoted, Kristan. Most thought-provoking !

    You cited :

    ““…Each man has his own individual khawarena, and to this he must cling, for it is the instrument of his salvation. The Khawarena is… it is work in the fulfillment of your final cause.”

    How well this harmoinizes with what Manu and Bhagavadgita say of Swa-dharma : performances of one’s own natural duty, leading to fulfillment of Soul freedom. Voice of the Silence speaks of it and warns against neglect of swadharma : “Man who does not go throrugh his appointed work in life has lived in vain.” Each of us, by our Karma, has an appointed work in life, which we should perform sacrifice to one’s Farvarshi.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Thanks Kristan. SO, there is no direct allusion to reincarnation in Pahlavi texts ? You mean to say, you have to infer it by reference to context ?

    I wonder why. Except in Hindu and Buddhist texts not much importance is given in other religions to reincarnation as a religious doctrine of importance, though without it, and its twin law, Karma, no philosophy is complete and no ethics can have mandate of conscience.

    What could be the reason ?


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Very well said, Pavel ! Dharma is adherence to the laws of virtue or morality based on a knowledge of true nature of Self, of universal Brotherhood, Karma and Reincarnation, and self-responsibility and duty–not something motivated by fear of hell or guilt.

    Manu says that earning one’s livelihood according to one’s natural qualities and capacity (Swadharma) regulated by Dharma makes for human happiness and social harmony. It has for its goal the World Ideal : Nirvana or Moksha, liberation from all conditioned existence.

    If these truths are understood and become widespread in the world will not our whole socio-political economy undergo fundamental change ?


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Dharma forms fundamental basis of all aspects of individual and collective life in ancient India–though modern India, corrupted as it is, has lost that basis and gone astray. All the terrible things that you hear of India is on account of that calamity. What prevails now is just dead letter observances and priestly exploitation.

    HPB said that tragedy of India is that she has lost Theosophy–ever since the Master were exiled by Brahminical orthodoxy. These latter have sway over peoples minds and will never know the meaning of the Shastras, unless they go reverentially, with repentance, to the Masters and seek Their guidance.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Yes.Karma ever tends upwards, leading Egos through experience and discipline to highest goal which is complete, universal Self-consciousness. Mr Judge shows that it is Just Law and at the same time Merciful–Justice and Mercy being the two aspects of one reality.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Absolutely right. Higher Self is free, the lower material principles in which it reflects itself as the terrestrial ‘I,’ personality, is self-perpetuating entity through the blind and unintelligent power of self-reproductive or self-procreating Kama.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Whether the three Vedas were just conventional knowledge, as Fergus suggests, is an open question. What follows the Samhitas, viz., Brahamanas and Upanishads, are exposition of the hidden sense of the Vedas, and not something outside of the ambit of the three Vedas. Whole exposition is so cryptic, the hidden sense contained in the subtleties of intonation (swara) correlated to colour and rates of vibrations of sound, which only those initiated could ever know.

    We can correlate the three Vedas to the first three virtues of Paramitas of perfection six in number, viz., Dana, Shila and Kshanti

    To Dana correspond Rk
    To Shila, Yajus
    To Kshanti, Saman

    Rig Veda is an extensive discourse on Cosmogony, Anthropogony, Theogony, inter-relationship between
    the three –in short, whole philosophy of the science of life, theoretically expounded. It is like our study of the Isis and SD. Krishna begins his teaching with Sankhya, speculative doctrine, which must first be known before any practice can follow, which are detailed in the III chapter of the BG.

    Yajur Veda is to do with actual sacrificial rites, equivalent to the Virtue of Shila : Key of Harmony in word and act, the key that counter balances the cause and the effect, leaving no room for Karmic action. It is actual sacrifice of personal self to Self Impersonal–the inner sacrifice that Judge speaks of in his Notes on the Bhagavadgita. It is burning out of the dross of personal idea from the heart, leaving behind a purified body, mind and heart, in the great battle between the lower and the higher Self. Seeds of Karma are burnt out. It is equivalent to Key to Theosophy, book of practical Theosophy par excellence.

    Sama is Kshanti, Patience sweet that naught can ruffle, a state of Titiksha, the Ego is firmly established on the path to Adeptship. Sama is harmony, equanimity, equity, justice, which the disciple has to embody. Sama Veda is song. It is sung. This is equivalent to the Heart Doctrine of the Voice of the Silence.

    Manu says that only he who is proficient in Trividya can be called a Brahmin, and not others who are not.

    Trividya cannot be mere theoretical knowledge but practical science of self-regeneration, and resurrection from the dead (life in the body of unregenerated man is indeed Dead)

    Only then the path to Adeptship is attained, the condition of the Srotapatti

    Just a few reflections.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Ancestral Worship of the Hindus Fergus spoke of has a very powerful hold on the Hindu mind to this day, and it is enforced by Brahminical priest class through instilling fear in the masses that ancestral spirits would perish into hell if not offered libation and water in a prescribed ritual to be performed annually.

    When my Mother passed away, I being the eldest son, had to perform the last rites ending with cremation of the mortal remains. Post cremation rituals were so absurd and, to me, absolutely disgusting, I refused to perform, and told my father I could not for one moment go along with it, and abstained. My younger brother who ardently believed in it continued the ceremonies.

    There is a Dwaita sect religious centre near my place. Quite a large establishment where the faithful throng. A question was asked by the followers whether they have to perform the annual ancestral ceremony of shraddha and pinda even after years of passing away of elders. A notice board was displayed enjoining that the ceremony has to be performed till the last day of the surviving near relative.

    It is just Brahmincal exploitation.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Excellent quote Kristan. That is Reincarnation, unequivocally !


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Very valid observation, Kristan. I have heard that Jewish religion knows of Reincarnation but does not speak of it, its main focus, as you say, is to teach people to live the life in the present in the right way.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Moreover, what is now extant, as said by HPB in the SD, of the Vedas is only a tiny portion of the original corpus. Much is “missing”


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    I agree. Reincarnation and Liberation appear differently from a higher perspective from the one we are accustomed to. To the Jivan Mukta there is neither birth nor death, neither bondage nor liberation. Having transcended time. space, matter, causation his ideation is something we cannot comprehend. As said of a Mahatma, quoted in SD (do not remember the page no.) that He feels irritated at having to use such clumsy terms as past, present, future, that they are as ill adapted for the purpose as an axe for fine carving.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Gerry,

    Exact historical account is not found, as far as I know, in the mainstream history books. My statement is based on what HPB has stated, and what Masters have hinted at. Jainism and Buddhism flourished in India. Of that there are mainstream historical accounts. Chandragupta Mourya was deeply influenced by these two streams. Ashoka embraced Buddhism and under his benevolent rule whole of India put into practice Buddha’s teachings. There are extensive Buddhist Viharas in the caves of the Eastern Ghats in the coastal region of Andhra Pradesh in Southern India. HPB says that Voice of the Silence is a translation of the Mahayana Buddhist text written in Telugu language spoken in Andhra Pradesh.

    I have heard the present Pontif of Sringeri–a highly learned Brahminical Monastry in the Western Ghats–speaking of exile of Buddhism from Southern India. Brahmins always had sway over the rulers of Southern India and had their way always. It was a very learned pontiff of Sringeri–probably an Initiate also–called Vidyaranya who founded the glorious Vijayanagar empire about 1336 which flourished for more than 300 years, leaving behind rich cultural heritage.

    As you all know Nalanda Buddhist seat of learning flourished in northern India from 5th to 13th century CE till it was ransacked and destroyed by Moghul invaders. Its destruction was foreseen and precious MSS were transported to Tibet and translated into Tibetan tongue and preserved. Dalai Lama speaks of it. They have come back to India with the Tibetan refugees who sought asylum in India, and their beautiful extensive monasteries have hundreds of thousands of MSS in Tibetan.

    Brahminism has such a sway over Hindu mind I wonder whether Buddhism has a chance at all of gaining widespread acceptance in India.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    The notion that Buddhist do not entertain the idea of self has to be viewed in its correct perspective–if I am not mistaken.

    HPB has made it clear in the Key to Theosophy that when Buddhist say there is no self that reincarnates they mean personal self. Buddha had to destroy the wrong notion in India then that the personal soul (personality) reincarnates, whereas in truth it does not, but disintegrates leaving behind only skandhas.

    Moreover, she says, Buddha did not speek of philosophical and metaphysical ideas with masses but discouraged them to speculate on these, and taught just what they needed, which is right living.

    But Buddha did, and Mahayana Buddhist do, speak of Reincarnating Ego as the Self

    Canto on Self in the Dhammapada speaks of Self

    His Holiness the Dalai Lama, in his wonderful dialogue with leading scientists of the west spoke exhaustively of dual and triple consciousness : i. Personal brain-consciousness of which nothing remains after death.
    ii. Basis of it, and standing apart unaffected by it, is what he called Foundation Consciousness, which is equivalent in Theosophical classification as Higher Manas or Divine EGO.
    iii. Clear Consciousness — equivalent to Theosophical Buddhi-Manas (Buddhi-Taijasi = Manas assimilated to Buddhi)

    “Gentle Bridges” is the title of the book in which the dialogue is detailed. (Shambala publication)


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Dharma, says Mr. Judge, in his Notes on the Bhagavadgita, — as regards man — “Man alone has the power to retard his ‘journey to the heart of the Sun,’ by refusing to perform his properly appointed and plainly evident Dharma.”

    What then is his Dharma — Manava Dharma ?


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Seems to be that Karma is not only about how cycles of reincarnation unfold but how reincarnation occur at all and why, for what purpose, to what end.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    I wholly agree with the statement of Fergus that : “So I wonder…. what aspects of reincarnation, or what view of it, or what other ideas would help inform a higher morality (one based on doing right for the sake of it being right, etc.)? It seems that a belief in reincarnation alone isn’t enough.”

    But reincarnation is bound up with, and is the outcome of, the law of Karma. No Karma, no reincarnation, and again, “there is no Karma unless there is a being to make it or feel its effects.” (Aphorism on Karma, no. 1) Effects produced by our actions are in strict accord with, and follow the line of, causation we produced. Here is the trigon : of i. the Agent, ii. the moral causation, and iii. the consequence or the effects that follow. Harmonious adjustment of effects of actions done by us which the GREAT ADJUSTER, Karma, effects is always via and through the Agent (the Ego) which produced the cause, during which adjustment the Agent feels pain or pleasure according as the moral causation was in accord with, or, antagonistic to the harmony of life.

    This is true of individuals, of families, communities, nations and even the world as a whole.

    If we add to it the Law of Distributive Karma then we have, as HPB shows, a clear explanation of the terrible mass sufferings and calamities which frequently overtake societies.

    There is no injustice anywhere and at anytime except such as those we ourselves–individually and collectively– produced, and have become the victims thereof.


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Precisely.

    That we are immortal souls is the very first and foremost truth with which Krishna begins his instructions to Arjuna — with these soul stirring words : Never was I was not, nor thou, nor all these princes of the earth, nor shall we ever hereafter cease to be ; as the dweller in the body experiences therein infancy,youth and old age, so will it meet the same in future incarnations. (Quoting as remembered)

    But it is not easy to realize the changeless immortal self, though we admit it through intellectual reasoning and intuitive perception.

    Very powerful teaching on the essential nature of the Ego and its transmigrations is found in the 15th chapter of the BG :

    It is even a potion of myself which having assumed life in this world of conditioned existence draweth together the 5 senses and the mind that it may obtain a body and may leave it again; and these are carried by the sovereign Lord to and from whatever body he may enter or quit, as the breeze bears the fragrance of the flower. Presiding over the organs of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch, as also the mind, it experiences the world. (As remembered)

    But no one realizes it, though they hear of it in astonishment, speak of it in wonderment.

    Such is the power of Maya, difficult to surmount. Mr Judge says it is the powerful personal idea of separateness–egotism–difficult indeed to subdue.

    Mr Judge, however, says, realization comes from dwelling upon the thing to be realized.

    We have to think, think and think all the time–right from the time when we rise in the morning, working during the day, to the time when we go to sleep in the night–that we are not the body or circumstances but are the Self distinct and separable from the body–neither praise nor blame, neither relative happiness nor sorrow, neither sleep, dream or deep sleep, neither birth nor death of the body–of which perpetual ceaseless changes “i” am the witness standing on high unaffectd (Kootastha).

    Look on every one of “others” in the same light.

    If Ego-Self is immortal, then it is eternal. How many eternals can there be ? Eternal can only be One not many.

    Hence there is only one Self–in you, in me, in all : Hence universal Brotherhood.

    Though realization may not be ours as yet, yet we are affected deeply by this line of thought and meditation by way of changed attitude to life and in regard to our relationships. Fear of death is to a great extent abated, and certain higher carelessness, a certain calmness and a spirit of tolerance of circumstances and persons do indeed arise. That is not a small gain !

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by  Ramprakash ML.

  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    To the question of Jon Fergus :

    “What does it mean to sow ?” Action, thought, intent ?

    A thought in response :

    It appears that Thought is the real plane of action, and intent or motive determine the moral quality of action–ie., the good and evil results that ensue.

    Inasmuch as we are Eternal Thinkers, we are ceaselessly in action, generating Karma, and reaping what we generated, through endless cycles of rebirth.

    “No one ever resteth a moment inactive. Every man is involuntarily urged to act by the qualities which spring from nature.”

    Spirit, Purusha, is invested with and involved in Prakriti, Nature (the three qualities), and it is his self-identifying attachment to the latter which is the cause of his cycles of rebirth in good and evil wombs, says Krishna in the XIII chapter of the Bhagavadgita.

    Unless, and till,  one learns to dissociate, through discrimination and dispassion, Self from non-Self, and arrive at the state of freedom from being swayed by Qualities and pairs of opposite, one is caught up in the network of one’s own self-made destiny.

    “Such is thy Karma, the Karma of the cycles of thy birth, and the destiny of those, who in their pain and sorrow, are born along with thee to rejoice and weep from life to life, chained to their previous actions.” (Voice) (Not verbatim, but as remembered)

     

     


  • Ramprakash ML
    Participant
    Ramprakash ML

    Peter’s illustration of Harmony vis a vis Karma takes away the narrow view of Karma as good and bad is valid. He said :

    There is another type of harmony which is harmony in action – for example, in music when all the musicians playing their different parts nevertheless work in unison to create and produce a unified whole. Perhaps, by analogy, we can envisage creating those causes in our current life that will create a future for ourselves and all beings which is not so much about avoiding suffering or minimising the karma we create (i.e. restoring the equilibrium as in the pond example, which seems almost impossible at our level of development) but one which will provide the positive conditions for ourselves and others to better lead lives of goodness and spiritual endeavour.”

    In view of the fact of Unity of Self, and of the universal impulse in Nature to progress towards higher life, our action in accordance with it is “Harmony in action,” which is productive of highest good of all. That should be good Karma, and thoughts and actions contrary to it cannot but be bad Karma.

    Key to Theosophy:

    ” ‘Good’ and ‘Harmony,’ and ‘Evil’ and ‘Disharmony,’ are synonymous. Further we maintain that all pain and suffering are result of want of Harmony, and that the one terrible and only cause of disturbance of Harmony is selfishness in some form or another. Hence Karma gives back to every man the actual consequences of his own actions, without any regard to their moral character…” (Chapter on Karma)

    This is a lesson we are all learning, though through much suffering and pain–how to think and act in unison with the Harmony of  Life. The day nations learn this verity and make it the basis of their national policies and international relations, then will the much desired World Peace dawn on the suffering humanity.

    • This reply was modified 3 years ago by  ModeratorTN.
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